Cayenne Pepper also referred to as "Red Pepper"

[ThePieMan]

In longstanding discussions on the nature of CHS's choice of "Red Pepper" many have postulated, Ancho, Habanero, Chilli flakes, cayenne and paprika powder. but it has been never sufficiently, succinctly outlined what the Colonel's Red Pepper was. In the 1950's what was the difference between spice tins labeled: cayenne, red pepper, red and cayenne pepper, paprika, whole red chillis, red pepper flakes, etc.

From the following source, en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cayenne_pepper it is clearly stated that Red Pepper and Cayenne Pepper are one and the same. Good enough for me.

[ThePieMan]

Now, of course I could always go back to a source document – 


Campbell's tea, coffee and spice manual, a comprehensive trade manual on teas, coffees and spices ..
by Campbell, Lute E

Publication date [c1920]
Topics Coffee, Tea, Spices
Publisher Los Angeles, Calif., L.E. Campbell
Collection cdl; americana
Digitizing sponsor MSN
Contributor University of California Libraries
Language English
source: archive.org/details/campbellsteacoff00camprich

aimed at Merchants of the Trade, in general...



Where he makes an effort to distinguish between various Capsicum products, of interest to us, from p153 onwards...


Note here he distinguishes between "Red Pepper," and "Cayenne Pepper," the distinction primarily being, 'Colour.' The other key distinction (although Campbell doesn't mention it specifically,) is that Cayenne Pepper is a red pepper sourced or originating from the region around the island city of Cayenne, in French Guiana – oddly enough, located in South America  ;-)


Of note here, I guess is his reference to the most notable commercial varieties. For domestic consumption its not to hard to conjecture that merchants importing these peppers would have blended them to a trade secret recipe and adjusted their pricing, or... adjust the ingredients in the blend in response to market price fluctuations, in order to maximise profits from domestic sales.

[ThePieMan]

Lastly, a final note from Campbell on the debate over Red Pepper vs Cayenne Pepper...


Which brings me back to my initial assertion – Good Enough for me.

Whether this resolves the debate over did CHS use Red Pepper Powder, Ground Chilli Powder, OR Cayenne Pepper: and did he distinguish between the three? I just don't know. The question, I think is moot. Amore relevant question might be to ask, Why would CHS use a Red Pepper in his recipe in the first place?

There's plenty of heat already, from all the pepper that's in it. If he was seeking "Universal Taste" then 'Hot and Spicy' is not universal, although its proving to be moreso today. Hot, spicy, Southern Fried Chicken = Chillis! Yes? 

No! heat? pungency? taste? colour? balance? These are the issues I think he would have considered. Heat, Bite, Pungency? He's got these covered with all the white and black pepper in there. Balance? Heat is there, need some piquancy, or sweetness... For this reason I'm inclined to think he use Paprika Powder, for flecks of colour as well as its sweeter, rounder impact on taste.

Something more to think about.

[Ken_Griffiths]

TPM

Paprika listed at the online Aqua-Calc, USDA and ASTA databases all show it as being heavier in weight compared to the ingredients listed as Red Pepper, Chilli or Cayenne... just thought I would highlight that point to assist your research.

The items referred to as 'chilli powder, are often a blend of different red peppers and may contain a very small amount other ingredients such as cumin, garlic powder etc.

Cayenne Red Pepper on the other hand is, as you say, from the region of French Guiana and is not usually 'blended' with any other types of peppers or ingredients. Cayenne is often thought of as a hot Red Pepper, but there is a milder Cayenne Pepper, which is orange in colour.

Here is 'perhaps' a helpful ingredient description document posted on the Marion Kay distributor portal which describes some of their products including the various Chilli and Red Peppers they supply to customers and the catering trade.

The Crushed Red Pepper they use is Santakas, also know as 'Chinese Reds',which are fairly hot, but they also sell Cayenne and a variety of Chilli Powders, including Premium Chilli Powder and one they describe as Chilli Powder 1000 (hot).

And there are two types of Paprika too.

See this link - document is dated early 2016:

marionkay.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/PRODUCT-DESCRIPTION.pdf

I find it adds to the confusion about which type the Colonel preferred to use himself.

[Ken_Griffiths]

Some photos of the Red Pepper seen in 99x under a USB microscope:


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I personally don't think it's Paprika, but it might be the MK Crushed Red Pepper they call 'Chinese Reds' ... but it could also be the hot Red Cayenne Pepper too. It's anyone's guess.

[ThePieMan]

Too true Ken. (anyone's guess...)

I've seen these pics before, and they've always kinda bothered me because the chilli flakes are so much larger than the other ingredients in the shot. The other point, is that though its may be typical of 99x, there's no direct connection to the OR11, other than inference from stories, which has been more than eloquently outlined and not something that needs to be re-debated. :-D

From what I've read though, Cayenne Pepper has been in the past, and may continue to be cut with other peppers, it may be made entirely from the seed of the pepper, or it may also include the red flesh as well. Paprika is a mild pepper, sweet and doesn't contain significant amounts of capsaicin (if any at all) where as Chillies tends to have varying and increasing levels of capsaicin. Chinese Reds are long thin red chillies about as thick as an average mans thumb and as long as the distance from wrist to tip of middle finger. Birds Eyes, another popular asian chilli are more like a one's little finger, and are often cut into various chilli/red pepper blends.

So in summary, it seems that, "Red Pepper" is a synonym for a, medium heat, chilli powder, or flaked chilli. So, if CHS used "Red Pepper" in his mix, the question is why? As for Paprika? I still think this is more likely due to what it brings to the flavour profile. Does it fit at all? I don't know.

Where does that leave us, now?

Well, its clear that it ain't Ancho, ... or Chilli d'Espelette. ;-)


Addendum.
These are the weights I have for:

Pepper Red ground 1.8g/tsp
Paprika 2.1g/tsp
Chilli Powder 2.6g/tsp
Chilli dried Jalapeno 1.9g/tsp
Cayenne Pepper 2.3 g/tsp  (from Aqua-calc. Somehow I've managed to lose my database and recipe development files, most annoying... grrrr...)

[ThePieMan]

Get it while its hot folks!

According to this video, from Canada, They use Chilli, and what looks to be, wait for it... "GALANGAL!" at least that what it looks like rom the colour of the picture on the wall ... ... ... roflmao!



only three herbs&spices are identifiable at all in this clip, Clove Berries, Rosemary Leaves, and Red pepper Flakes. Everything else is powder and except for one looking like curry powder, two looking like powdered galangal, all the rest look like red pepper powder.

Don't ya just love Corporate Marketing.

[ThePieMan]

Apart from that, the video is a very interesting watch for various aspects of the process and the insight it provides into the Winston Pressure Fryers.

[Ken_Griffiths]

TPM,

A great YouTube video TPM - a most enjoyable watch.

I learned several things from it which I will go onto test later in my own cooking process. I see the darker meat portions (chicken legs etc) are usually placed towards the middle of the fryer and i assume the cook time was at least 12-1/2 to 13 minutes starting at 325°F for two heads of chicken or 18 pieces.

The manual I have, says the cooked chicken can be held for upto two hours in the moist holding cabinets rather than the stated 1-1/2 hours, but it maybe a case there is a newer model of the cabinet compared to the one shown in the video.

The temperature for the moisture (holding) cabinet in some documentation I have shows it as being 140°F (60°C), but I have seen some contradictory evidence to say it should be 80°C. I tend to use the latter temperature myself and hold my fried chicken in a steam filled oven for at least 20 minutes before serving it.... that's if I'm cooking for family and friends. Otherwise I use your method of placing the chicken underneath an up-turned bowl, or lidded Pyrex dish, to trap the steam around a few pieces of chicken for 10 minutes or so ... which is great for testing things when cooking/testing recipes just for myself.

Anyhow a great video, one of the best I have seen.

Note the wall poster with the herbs and spices images is cleverly worded ... it just says 11 herbs and spices. There is nothing to indicate they are the Colonels chosen ones or that they are the ones in the original recipe. It could just be a wall poster that is intended to merely 'represent' any 11 herbs and spices.

These marketing people are quite clever and can sometimes cause the end customer to think in a particular way, without actually lying or misrepresenting things. There is nothing in the advertisement (as far as I can see) to say that they are the actual herbs and spices used in the original recipe. So we should perhaps all be mindful of that fact.

Remember under Trade Secrecy Laws the Corporation must show it is taking steps to protect its actual secret and not do anything to reveal it, which is why some KFC researchers argue the 11 glass vials may not be true, but I think the fact that the contents of the vials are very finely ground and were not revealed to the public for many years is some indication they may be correct and the label above them, actually says that they are Colonel Sanders' 11 Secret Herbs & Spices. The apostrophe in that label is still quite important, I think.


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[Ken_Griffiths]

Holding Cabinet image ... note the temperature shown is 79°C, but I think it should be 80°C:


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This however is what a KFC manual says about the holding cabinet temperatures:


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[ThePieMan]

Yes, a very interesting Video, Ken. There is at least one other video from the same event that gives a different camera angle and shows the pictures of the suggested chicken pieces layout on the racks, which is worth tracking down.

I used this video to modify my breading process, works well.

[ThePieMan]

And one more link from Masterclass on the difference between "Red Pepper" and others red powders...
www.masterclass.com/articles/whats-the-difference-between-cayenne-pepper-paprika-red-chili-pepper-and-ground-red-pepper-plus-15-red-pepper-varieties-and-culinary-uses#what-is-cayenne-pepper

[willy]

I'm a chili head and grow many different types of peppers. Back in the day, red chili flakes (pizza peppers) were red anaheims. I have cayennes I grew 20 years ago, which are almost black now. It is one of the few peppers I've grown that turned black, and I've grown many.

[justme]

Aug 6, 2020 10:19:44 GMT ThePieMan said:

And one more link from Masterclass on the difference between "Red Pepper" and others red powders...

www.masterclass.com/articles/whats-the-difference-between-cayenne-pepper-paprika-red-chili-pepper-and-ground-red-pepper-plus-15-red-pepper-varieties-and-culinary-uses#what-is-cayenne-pepper

I think we are going to need scientific names for the plants/peppers to which we refer since there are so many thousands of varieties.  I'm going to try that approach where possible going forward.

[justme]

Aug 3, 2017 13:17:40 GMT ThePieMan said:

A more relevant question might be to ask, Why would CHS use a Red Pepper in his recipe in the first place?

I'm convinced, based on having eaten it, that he didn't use any of the peppers known for their capsaicin content.  My family would not have eaten it.  Period.  The capsaicin heat simply was not there in the late 1960's - mid-1970's.  Also there is the Chinese sample in the main forum with no detectable capsaicin, and that reinforces my memory of the OR of years ago.

There's plenty of heat already, from all the pepper that's in it.

Exactly, but it's not the fire of capsaicin, it's the heat from piperine, which is completely different.  I think many of the people who haven't examined the chemical compounds don't realize the difference and therefore never adequately consider it.  They seem to rush forward with a preconceived notion and a desire to add yet another ingredient for the sake of reaching 11.

For this reason I'm inclined to think he use Paprika Powder, for flecks of colour as well as its sweeter, rounder impact on taste.

Agreed. We need to identify the plant species though. Ones with no (or very low) capsaicin would be the most likely candidates.

I'm reading the spice reference books that you provided in the main forum.