davies
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Post by davies on Aug 9, 2018 12:00:40 GMT
 "...we added 4 ounces of Jamaican Ginger to our spice pack."
Does anyone know where this passage comes from? It looks like a scanned page from a book to me, but I could be wrong. If this is true then we can find a lower bound for Jamaican Ginger in any given weight of seasonings. If franchisees were receiving 26oz packs of seasonings to mix in with 25lbs of flour and 3.75lbs of salt, we can deduce that at least (4/26)*13 = 2g of Jamaican Ginger is present in 13g of seasonings (which includes 3g of MSG). Thoughts? |
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Post by Ken_Griffiths on Aug 9, 2018 15:09:28 GMT
This document/image was widely discussed and looked at in the past on the old TCK forum, which has now gone, unfortunately.
One thing you 'perhaps' may need to include in the discussion here, is the fact the 4 ounces of Jamaican Ginger were supposedly added to the 26 ounces, taking the seasoning to a total of 30ozs, but presumably there was already 4 ounces of domestic ginger within the seasoning mix, or at least some sizeable quantity of Ginger powder... so we must not forget the original Ginger in the mix too, as that is possibly important, when considering the validity of this story.
Many TCK members reached the conclusion, the level of Ginger stated was perhaps a mistake and wondered if the Colonel just added 4 metric grams to the mix and not ounces... or perhaps the franchisee's breading lug was big enough to hold two bags of seasoning and 50lbs of flour etc. I guess we may never know.
My thoughts are that the story has an element of truth to it, but perhaps it was really 99x that was added to the seasoning. This was done in the early franchisee days to help 'zing' the corporate recipe, which had become less appealing due to inferior (cheaper) spices and herbs being used. They may have swapped out the 99x name and replaced it with Jamaican Ginger to protect the Marion Kay suppliers from being sued... again this is all just more guesswork.
I know a few people tried recipes with lots of ginger in it and their recipes apparently did not match (appearance wise), or smell, like kfc seasoning, or 99x etc... many felt it was far too much ginger and was not the correct taste. I tend to agree it seems rather a lot of Ginger doesn’t it? ..Even 2g sounds quite a lot to me.
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I personally don’t know the origins of the Dave Wachtell/Ray Danner story, but it’s possibly the first initial bit of evidence that made all researchers of the Secret Recipe, believe that vial 'F' contains Ginger powder, yet it’s also the one bit of evidence that seems to possibly be untrue, or possibly flawed.
Some think the story was put out by the Corporation, just to mislead the ongoing research by the public? ... I guess we can’t rule that out either.
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I like the idea though that some people have an 'open mind', believing this story might be completely true and that helps when folk have these different perspectives, because it's good to keep the research ongoing and ensures no research avenue, or stone, is left unturned.
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davies
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Post by davies on Aug 10, 2018 15:55:46 GMT
I was also thinking that 2g is quite a lot! I've never tried a recipe with so much ginger, but I may give it a go just so I can include or exclude this as a possibility. One thing is certain - it will have that 'zing'!
But apart from the quote, is there any other proof that Ginger is actually in the OR?
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Post by Ken_Griffiths on Aug 10, 2018 17:39:28 GMT
I don't know of any real evidence, for Ginger, I assume it was mostly based around the Wachtel/Danner story and the colour/appearance of Vial F
I don't even think there is that much Ginger in 99x (if any) but it does seem to work really well in the recipe, better than without it, in my humble opinion.
Many have asked what else could Vial F be that is common on everyone's kitchen shelf ?
I have been told, or heard mentioned, in the past, that Tommy Settle said that the 'Ginger' was high in the recipe that he discovered in the Colonels Diary/Address Book, but I've not seen any evidence that supports he said that ...and there again, there was nothing to prove that it was the Secret Original Recipe anyway.
If Tommy Settle did mention ginger I still wonder why that one ingredient? I reckon he did a deal there too with the KFC Corp.
Anyhow I still see the evidence for Ginger as weak .. its notable too that Jamaican Ginger is not even on the McCormicks import/export map that was posted on the forum here.
Until anyone proves otherwise though it looks like Ginger is Vial F though my thoughts are, it might be Garlic Powder/Salt and the Colonel saw that originally (and mistakenly) as a spice (or herb).
Garlic powder/salt is not in 99x either by the way, as it would probably have to be listed on the label as the FDA advise that it should be identified separately as a seasoning and not as a herb or spice.
Ginger remains a 'weak area' as far as my own research goes.
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Post by questfor11 on Aug 31, 2018 19:56:21 GMT
"...we added 4 ounces of Jamaican Ginger to our spice pack."
Does anyone know where this passage comes from? It looks like a scanned page from a book to me, but I could be wrong. If this is true then we can find a lower bound for Jamaican Ginger in any given weight of seasonings. If franchisees were receiving 26oz packs of seasonings to mix in with 25lbs of flour and 3.75lbs of salt, we can deduce that at least (4/26)*13 = 2g of Jamaican Ginger is present in 13g of seasonings (which includes 3g of MSG). Thoughts? Master of the Big Board: The Life, Times, and Businesses of Jack C. Massey By Bill Carey |
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Post by questfor11 on Sept 2, 2018 0:16:53 GMT
I live outside Chicago and I just found out that theres an Afro-Carribean mart out in the suburbs. I'm pretty sure they carry jamaican ginger. No website but they do have photos of some the shelves. One shelf had stack of Jamaican allspice bottles and jamaican curry. Everything in that place looks imported. Gonna check it out for kicks
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Post by willy on Jul 11, 2020 21:33:29 GMT
Should J. ginger be 15% of all recipes, or is the Statement by owner Brown false? Where is the proof that it was a false statement?
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Post by ThePieMan on Jul 30, 2020 15:21:13 GMT
There is no evidence, other than third party heresay about the Colonel raving in some franchise about Jamaican Ginger. Certainly trade statistics don't show any evidence for the large scale importation of Jamaican Ginger into the US. That being said, I recall that back in the Colonel's Kitchen days, either a Durkeys, McCormack's, or Sexton's spice tin carried the label, Jamaican Ginger.
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Post by willy on Jul 30, 2020 19:15:44 GMT
Jamaican ginger is in Sexton's Poultry Seasoning. Jamaican ginger is specifically mentioned at 4 oz in a 26 oz bag, which is 15%. In a later seasoning bag weighing 32 oz it would be 13%. That's how I understood it. The Winston Shelton story has him receiving 10 ingredients in percentages. At that point the seasoning bags could have been at 32 oz. My 1998 bag was 32 oz. The Colonel sends him the final "11th" ingredient, which is 13%. It must have been the important one that CHS had to think about before he released it. He wasn't asked about the "11th" ingredient, he surrendered it on his own. That is good enough for me. It is certainly more evidence than exists for star anise, or any other element supposedly contained within the 11 vials.
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Post by dprovo on Jul 30, 2020 21:13:06 GMT
Willy it’s not that high! That would be near the same levels as the pepper, probably a typo.
I mean in the same book he also says the spice packages were mixed with 25 bags of flour and 5 cups of salt. Clearly it wasn’t 25 bags of flour, but 25lbs of flour.
Dustin
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Post by dprovo on Jul 30, 2020 21:44:49 GMT
You think 32 oz vs 26 oz is what we should be going after? Dustin |
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Post by 2WhlWzrd on Jul 31, 2020 1:19:43 GMT
If the Ginger is much more than 5% in the recipe it begins to overpower everything else.
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Post by ThePieMan on Jul 31, 2020 5:24:04 GMT
...Jamaican ginger is specifically mentioned at 4 oz in a 26 oz bag, which is 15%.... Where is this? Where is it specifically mentioned? |
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Post by ThePieMan on Jul 31, 2020 5:36:32 GMT
"...we added 4 ounces of Jamaican Ginger to our spice pack."
Does anyone know where this passage comes from? It looks like a scanned page from a book to me, but I could be wrong. Watchell works for Danner, Gives anecdotal evidence, apparently first hand eyewitness of the Colonel raving in Danner's franchise, about Ginger. Watchell reports that Danner then proceeded to "add extra" ginger to the mix, i.e. they "zinged" the mix. It does not report how much ginger was in the original mix, it does not report that the final addition in combination with the ginger present was the correct level, therefore nothing can be extrapolated from this eyewitness report other than the Colonel pulled a finger out of his crack, stuffed it up his nose, and said, "something here stinks." In other words he was simply on the warpath with one of his pet hobby horses. 4oz of "extra" Jamaican Ginger in a, how a many ounce bag of corporate seasoning = just how many verifiable oz's of ginger in the mix? Riddle me that one, Batman... It's also been said in the recent clippings posted, that franchisees had to ad an additional 1/2 bag of spice to get it back to near what it was. Folks! Extrapolate that one for me with regards to ginger, please? And the rest of the ingredients as well... wait! I'm seeing a pattern here ...multiples? ... yes... 1.5 times what ever weak corporate copy recipe you make and mix it all together.    |
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Post by dprovo on Jul 31, 2020 15:01:58 GMT
ThePieMan,
Well 4oz thrown in is exactly that, 4oz of seasoning per the 26oz pack. If he would have said packs, then it would make sense, since 1oz which is a reasonable level x 4. Or 1/4thoz, but your right its not 4oz.
A few pages prior the same author says to mix a seasoning packet with 25 bags of flour, and 5 cups of salt (3lbs), well we know its not 25 bags of flour like the book says, but 25lbs of flour.
Dustin
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