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Post by kgp on Nov 8, 2022 16:25:31 GMT
“He basically started telling me to measure 20 grams of this herb and 10 grams of that spice and so on,” Shelton says. “And when he got through, he told me it would all add up to 100 grams. Then he said I should take that and mix it with a certain amount of soft winter wheat flour and that would be it.”
Aware that he’d been given the coveted secret recipe for the Colonel’s blend of 11 herbs and spices, Shelton returned to his office and checked the Colonel’s math: The list contained only 10 ingredients and totaled just 87 grams, which Shelton found puzzling. Then, several days later, an employee called to say, “‘I just ran into the Colonel, and he said you need 13 grams of this,’” Shelton recalls. He says he called his attorney, knowing that the fabled recipe was the exclusive property of Kentucky Fried Chicken, and was advised that “I didn’t want that recipe.”
This meeting was very covert. CHS did not want anyone else around. Ken, I don't think it was 13 grams of salt. Shelton counted 10 ingredients and it totaled 87 grams. We know CHS always said 11 herbs and spices. It's a well known fact. Shelton not only knew he was 13 grams short but knew it was short by 1 ingredient. This is the issue then. He gave a recipe without salt and MSG? Does anyone do that? Perhaps. Please note the vial photo does not have any salt. Also, 1 ingredient is 13 grams. Not "20 grams of this herb and 10 grams of that spice" like Shelton generalized. Also, another puzzle is CHS got the message to an "employee" to give to Shelton. The cat is out of the bag? More people know now about the covert meeting? Another puzzle is why was CHS short. He himself didn't have it written down? He said it off the top of his head? Most likely. But he wanted Shelton to write it down. Why Shelton? What did CHS want him to do with the recipe?
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Post by kgp on Nov 8, 2022 16:28:05 GMT
Did CHS go around giving his secret recipe to everyone that he fully trusted? If so, why?
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Post by kgp on Nov 8, 2022 16:37:35 GMT
Keep in mind that Shelton did reveal telicherry pepper to Tod Wilbur many many decades later as being in the secret recipe. The old man still recalls the recipe seeing it that day? Or he had it written down locked in a safe place where he could look at it from time to time?
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Post by Ken_Griffiths on Nov 8, 2022 16:46:51 GMT
The last ingredient 13g was given to Shelton over the phone by Shirley Topmiller (Colonels secretary) if I remember correctly? …The fact is the two Peppers might also have been given as just ‘Pepper’ (White & Black) 40g - so that would make that one ingredient, albeit combined - If the MSG wasn’t included he missed out a rather important ingredient there. I would have thought Shelton was given the Salt and Flour levels to use too, but what we don’t know is what was said precisely or what the reporter chose to include/not-include in the published story.
I tend to mostly rely on the number 13 as being correct, as that’s an unusual number. The 10’s and 20’s mentioned, do seem to have been said in perhaps more ‘general’ terms, but could be correct too.
I just see the Salt or Garlic Salt as being the ‘most likely’ ingredients missed off, particularly the Salt as the Colonel would likely not even add that himself when making the recipe for personal use - I almost always put it into my own recipes at the end with the main salt when adding it to the flour… note too that when it comes to being told about the missed 13g item - Shelton refers to it as an ‘ingredient’ and not a herb or spice.
Anyhow it’s all speculation and I only mention these things so it may assist you and others with your ongoing research, or at least give you some further things to consider when looking at what Shelton had to say to the reporter.
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Post by kgp on Nov 8, 2022 17:56:05 GMT
Ken said "note too that when it comes to being told about the missed 13g item - Shelton refers to it as an ‘ingredient’ and not a herb or spice."
Not true. Shelton did not say "ingredient." The writer of that article did. Look at the quotes. Shelton did know he had the recipe in his hand that is why he called his lawyer. He also knew it came up short not only in grams but in a item. He never says herb or spice or ingredient. Question is what fits 13 grams in the recipe? I like the idea of garlic salt or celery salt in the 11 to complete salt levels but is that even possible? The entire recipe must add up to 100 grams. Ken, why do you think CHS gave Shelton the recipe in the first place? In regards to what CHS gave him I think he gave him the recipe. But he also gave him the salt, MSG and flour amount as a separate figure. We do know he gave him the flour amount. We read "Then he said I should take that and mix it with a certain amount of soft winter wheat flour and that would be it.” Shelton knew the flour amount. Without a doubt. A recipe without that would be of little value.
Also, to say "and that would be it" sounds like that completes it. Nothing more to add. Where is the salt? Where is the MSG? CHS gave it to him as separate figures. Just like he did the flour.
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Helen
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Post by Helen on Nov 9, 2022 17:24:04 GMT
We read "Then he said I should take that and mix it with a certain amount of soft winter wheat flour and that would be it.” Shelton knew the flour amount. Without a doubt. A recipe without that would be of little value. I beg to differ. Knowing a seasoning blend is of much value. The job of determining the correct amount of flour for 1g of said seasoning is relatively simple compared to the gargantuan task of determining the blend from the very beginning - especially without making use of or relying on any previous work for assistance - of which we know 1g should be mixed with 2g flour. |
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Post by kgp on Nov 9, 2022 17:48:25 GMT
We read "Then he said I should take that and mix it with a certain amount of soft winter wheat flour and that would be it.” Shelton knew the flour amount. Without a doubt. A recipe without that would be of little value. I beg to differ. Knowing a seasoning blend is of much value. The job of determining the correct amount of flour for 1g of said seasoning is relatively simple compared to the gargantuan task of determining the blend from the very beginning - especially without making use of or relying on any previous work for assistance - of which we know 1g should be mixed with 2g flour. The value I'm talking about is to Shelton. Not the world. Stay with the context. Yes, even bots can get it wrong. |
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Post by Ken_Griffiths on Nov 9, 2022 18:14:03 GMT
Ken said "note too that when it comes to being told about the missed 13g item - Shelton refers to it as an ‘ingredient’ and not a herb or spice." Not true. Shelton did not say "ingredient." The writer of that article did. Look at the quotes. Shelton did know he had the recipe in his hand that is why he called his lawyer. He also knew it came up short not only in grams but in a item. He never says herb or spice or ingredient. Question is what fits 13 grams in the recipe? I like the idea of garlic salt or celery salt in the 11 to complete salt levels but is that even possible? The entire recipe must add up to 100 grams. Ken, why do you think CHS gave Shelton the recipe in the first place? In regards to what CHS gave him I think he gave him the recipe. But he also gave him the salt, MSG and flour amount as a separate figure. We do know he gave him the flour amount. We read "Then he said I should take that and mix it with a certain amount of soft winter wheat flour and that would be it.” Shelton knew the flour amount. Without a doubt. A recipe without that would be of little value. Also, to say "and that would be it" sounds like that completes it. Nothing more to add. Where is the salt? Where is the MSG? CHS gave it to him as separate figures. Just like he did the flour. As in the old 99x 25oz container (based on labelling) it had a quantity of Salt —> not more than 11%. That container was to be mixed with a main quantity of salt (4lb). So there is a main bag of separate salt and what I will call a ‘secondary’ small quantity of salt in the seasoning..the corporate KFC seasoning bags mention the same thing. Whether that’s part of garlic salt (originally) or a small quantity of salt to keep the spices and herbs preserved/moisture free is still not clear, but it would make more sense to me if the Colonel simply missed that salt level off his list and that Shelton was not trying to ‘spoil’ the well known story that the recipe contained 11 herbs. Imagine if he said there were 11 on his list and that the Colonel gave him a 12th ingredient - that would never have sounded true to the masses.. so it makes more sense to me that it was Salt/Garlic salt that was missing, or as I think, a ‘combination’ of Salts, which I think may originate from the salt being part of the Garlic Salt and a small quantity of Sterling International Salt.. used to preserve/reduce moisture issues in both the seasoning bag and Barrel. Garlic Salt is, by definition, 6 parts Salt to 1 part garlic by weight as stated here: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garlic_saltSo if we put that into our seasoning bag like this: 2.25oz Salt plus 0.375oz Garlic Powder Together with… 1oz Sterling international Salt Then the Salt will scale to exactly 13g weight in a 100g recipe or 13lbs in a 100lb Barrel when placed in those containers. That’s also 3.25 ounces in a 26oz Seasoning bag… that’s based on all the past calculations I have done and shown on the forum here in the past. I think that weight (3.25oz) is too little to be the granulated Black Pepper, that’s from my own tests, but it’s also too much for Garlic Salt, but it could well be the overall level of Salt and if we take away the 1oz of Sterling Salt and convert the Garlic Salt weight to 2.625oz of Fine Flake Salt - it would help to certainly explain the Salt level in 99x (no more than 11%) and why the Marion Kay container weighed 1oz less than the KFC corporate seasoning bag. So it’s something worthy of consideration when researching the Shelton story, I think🤔? |
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Post by kgp on Nov 9, 2022 20:19:33 GMT
Yes Ken, it is worth considering. Let's set aside the 11 for a moment. CHS did give Shelton the amount of flour. We know that. He told us. Shelton didn't reveal to us how much. Now, since CHS gave him the flour amount he would also have given him the salt and MSG. Without that the recipe is incomplete. Agree?
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Helen
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Post by Helen on Nov 9, 2022 20:30:20 GMT
I beg to differ. Knowing a seasoning blend is of much value. The job of determining the correct amount of flour for 1g of said seasoning is relatively simple compared to the gargantuan task of determining the blend from the very beginning - especially without making use of or relying on any previous work for assistance - of which we know 1g should be mixed with 2g flour. The value I'm talking about is to Shelton. Not the world. Stay with the context. Yes, even bots can get it wrong. Can you explain why the value of an object decreases as we learn more about it? |
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Post by kgp on Nov 9, 2022 20:38:34 GMT
The value I'm talking about is to Shelton. Not the world. Stay with the context. Yes, even bots can get it wrong. Can you explain why the value of an object decreases as we learn more about it? Sure, the increase in distance between any two given gravitationally unbound parts of the observable universe with time. It is an intrinsic expansion whereby the scale of space itself changes. The universe does not expand "into" anything and does not require space to exist "outside" it. This expansion involves neither space nor objects in space "moving" in a traditional sense, but rather it is the metric (which governs the size and geometry of spacetime itself) that changes in scale. As the spatial part of the universe's spacetime metric increases in scale, objects become more distant from one another at ever-increasing speeds. To any observer in the universe, it appears that all of space is expanding, and that all but the nearest galaxies (which are bound by gravity) recede at speeds that are proportional to their distance from the observer. While objects within space cannot travel faster than light, this limitation does not apply to the effects of changes in the metric itself. Objects that recede beyond the cosmic event horizon will eventually become unobservable, as no new light from them will be capable of overcoming the universe's expansion, limiting the size of our observable universe. As an effect of general relativity, the expansion of the universe is different from the expansions and explosions seen in daily life. It is a property of the universe as a whole and occurs throughout the universe, rather than happening just to one part of the universe. Therefore, unlike other expansions and explosions, it cannot be observed from "outside" of it; it is believed that there is no "outside" to observe from. Metric expansion is a key feature of Big Bang cosmology, is modeled mathematically with the Friedmann–Lemaître–Robertson–Walker metric and is a generic property of the universe we inhabit. However, the model is valid only on large scales (roughly the scale of galaxy clusters and above), because gravity binds matter together strongly enough that metric expansion cannot be observed on a smaller scale at this time. As such, the only galaxies receding from one another as a result of metric expansion are those separated by cosmologically relevant scales larger than the length scales associated with the gravitational collapse that are possible in the age of the universe given the matter density and average expansion rate. |
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Post by Ken_Griffiths on Nov 9, 2022 22:09:25 GMT
Yes Ken, it is worth considering. Let's set aside the 11 for a moment. CHS did give Shelton the amount of flour. We know that. He told us. Shelton didn't reveal to us how much. Now, since CHS gave him the flour amount he would also have given him the salt and MSG. Without that the recipe is incomplete. Agree? I neither agree, nor disagree, as we actually do not know whether CHS gave him the MSG quantity or not, like the Salt/flour levels Shelton chose not to mention these to the reporter or the reporter didn’t print them. It remains unclear if the MSG was included in the recipe handed over - it’s why I personally chose to research it some years ago from each angle, with and without, the MSG in the 100g mix. Hence I was able to provide an example from each in this thread. |
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Post by kgp on Nov 10, 2022 8:28:16 GMT
Okay, let me break it down even smaller. Did CHS give him the flour amount?
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Post by willy on Nov 10, 2022 15:52:03 GMT
"Did CHS go around giving his secret recipe to everyone that he fully trusted?" The reason for that assertion is to justify all who claim to have received the recipe, so their claim can be believed. I contend that the original recipe was never used. It was altered from day one in 1964. What should be checked is the time frame in which CHS first blew his stack. The chicken I ate pre-1964 did not taste like the post-1964 chicken.
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Post by kgp on Nov 10, 2022 20:11:47 GMT
"Did CHS go around giving his secret recipe to everyone that he fully trusted?" The reason for that assertion is to justify all who claim to have received the recipe, so their claim can be believed. I contend that the original recipe was never used. It was altered from day one in 1964. What should be checked is the time frame in which CHS first blew his stack. The chicken I ate pre-1964 did not taste like the post-1964 chicken. I believe Winston Shelton is a honest man. If he says CHS came to him giving him the secret recipe one day then it did actually happen. I would like to know what year that was. Decades later Winston told Todd Wilbur that telicherry pepper is in the secret recipe. He even explained why it's in there. Saying it gives it that after taste. I don't believe Winston threw out that paper of the recipe he wrote down from CHS own words. One day it will be in a secret auction for BIG money. I'm sure from time to time while he was alive he looked at that paper every now and then. |
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