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Post by ThePieMan on Feb 21, 2017 14:59:02 GMT
I was thinking about black pepper, the black pepper in the individual sachets handed out to customers to season, if they wish, their meals and thought, let's look at it, really look carefully at it… I wonder… Self-season black pepper – but wait… what's that?  it looks like…  its black and white pepper combined. Now isn't that odd? I wonder what the ratio is? Won't make any sense to try and pick it apart now, this is not a whole pack of pepper, see, I used a pinch or two while in the restaurant. |
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Post by ThePieMan on Sept 10, 2017 11:36:18 GMT
In light of the recent Canadian KFC Cooking School videos making an appearance in recent times, my thoughts have drawn me back to a particular issue that I occasionally rant on. Perhaps this issue deserves its own thread under the "Main Ingredients" tab because I believe it to be essential to underpinning the OR Taste.
That is: What is the particle size of each main ingredient in relation to each other?
I don't want to dissect the video, that deserves its own review, perhaps somewhere to do with the KFC Method and processes; however, it is clearly stated that one for the quality criteria for finished product is to be able to see an even distribution of black pepper flakes throughout the breading. Thus it is clear that Black pepper should be cracked, at least no finer than as shown in the KFC pepper packets.
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Post by ThePieMan on Sept 10, 2017 11:52:14 GMT
Continuing on...
I recall from previous forums, various close up pictures of various spice blends: as part of the argument and justification of what's in and what isn't; that msg was not finely ground, it maintained its rod-like shape.
Fine flake salt has never been adequately defined for me, regarding its size, yet I recall reading somewhere that the salt used should be baker's flour salt, i.e. salt that is as fine as flour.
With Black Pepper, it is clear that it has always been large enough to distinguish with the eye, in the breading, and given the KFC Dining Room Pepper packets, that appear to be a combo of black, and white, pepper (I've not seen granules that indicate that its solely ground black pepper, i.e. granules with white and black bits on them together) its possible the white pepper is also the same granulated size.
As for the various other herbs and spices it appears to be clear that these are in powdered, pulverised form, I don't think anyone anywhere has ever claimed that OR contains red pepper flakes.
Why is any of this important, because particle size has a direct impact on mouthfeel, and taste, e.g. gram for gram fine floured salt tastes more salty than coarse ground salt, until you dissolve both in your mouth... directly swallowed, however coarse ground salt is not as noticeable. Same with pepper. Fill the air with cracked pepper and fine ground pepper and tell me which one makes you sneeze more?
I think that future directions in nailing the OR Taste, need to take these factors into consideration. I do not believe any more that it is just a matter of grinding everything up into a fine dust and combining it with flour to get the OR just right. In this case, and only this case, boyz! size does matter ;-)
Cheers.
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Post by Ken_Griffiths on Sept 10, 2017 14:09:56 GMT
TPM, Yes I completely agree with your comments the 'size of mesh' for the Black Pepper must be important to the finished taste. Marion Kay sells Black Pepper at 30 micron mesh and they also supply the Fine Flake Salt for use with their 99x mix. I also accept that the MSG is visible in its tubular form. However, it's sometimes easier to get people initially onboard the research path, by keeping things simple ... not everyone can get hold of Fine Flake Salt ... so it's just as easy to blend table salt alongside the herbs and spices. Note in the recent video you posted, there is some talk about how the KFC cooks regularly turn and sift the seasoned flour, because the weight of the spices (particularly the Black Pepper) tend to sink to the bottom of the flour... the effect of that is far less if things are finely ground at home and so we should expect to see more flavour when things are done in that way in the home environment. You are right though, to try to replicate today's KFC you do need to get the size of things correct. What I'm not sure of, is if the Colonel could have achieved the different mesh sizes for his early original secret recipe? What I do know is in the Kitchen at the Corbin Museum, is a replica of the combined Hobart mixer and grinder that the Colonel used and my thoughts are that he personally may have finely ground his own ingredients ... but sadly there is little or no evidence to prove these things either way. Here is a photo that briefy mentions the museum Hobart grinder:  Click to enlarge image However, all said and done, I think the 'size of ingredient mesh' is important, but I equally think the brand and type of ingredients are also very important too, including their country of origin... that's if we are all looking for that more precise aroma/flavour and overall outcome. |
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Post by Ken_Griffiths on Sept 10, 2017 14:33:45 GMT
Sorry, my mention of 30 micron mesh for Black Pepper in my last post, is possibly not correct. I was thinking of something else. However this image shows the different size of Black Peppers that MK do sell ... in every case it is Indian Tellicherry Pepper... they actually grind it at their factory-plant in Indiana.  Click to enlarge image. I'm not sure which size of Black Pepper is the actual best match for today's KFC seasoning, but I can say that their 99x Chicken Seasoning mix has quite large granules of Black Pepper, but the White Pepper appears to be very finely ground. You can see the Red Pepper Flakes here and there in the mix, but they are much more visible under a cheap/simple USB microscope as shown here:  Click to enlarge image  Click to enlarge image |
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Post by ThePieMan on Sept 10, 2017 14:55:46 GMT
I'm guessing the museum is referring to something like this Ken, i.pinimg.com/originals/4b/e8/c9/4be8c917b4289ef8dabdc9df2e51da3e.jpgBut would like to see a pic though. I wonder what "Cafe" grind looks like and how it differs in size and shape to, "granulated." Yet I don't think MK were doing all these varieties of grind back in the day. I think "Cafe" has probably popped out of the woodwork in response to, wierdy-beardie* hipster baristas. As you say, its quite possible that CHS just chucked it all in together and zapped it in his grinder, but I'm not so sure, given his well promulgated need to be a frustratingly finicky old bugalugs. a visual clue like the even distribution of black pepper throughout the breading could very well have been one of his ideas. As you mentioned, in the video they claim the spices do tend to settle out over time so the breading and seasoning has to be well mixed to evenly distribute the spices through the flour. such a visual clue can indicate a restaurant taking shortcuts, or being clumsy in their workflow, etc before even taking a bite of the chicken. *from Robbie the Reindeer. |
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Post by Ken_Griffiths on Sept 10, 2017 15:11:32 GMT
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Post by Ken_Griffiths on Sept 10, 2017 15:16:42 GMT
I think this is the old Hobart grinder, located behind the Rawleigh's Black Pepper:  Click to enlarge image |
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Post by ThePieMan on Sept 10, 2017 15:27:31 GMT
I think this is the old Hobart grinder, located behind the Rawleigh's Black Pepper: Interesting. That's a Hobart "KitchenAid" Stand Mixer, and while it has the capability of attaching various attachments to the front. Its used for making bread, cakes, etc. You can also attach a grinding unit to the front, for grinding meats, etc. I wonder why they're calling it a mixer/grinder? This is a Hobart Spice grinder, apparently (lifted the image from a goole image search...)  |
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Post by Ken_Griffiths on Sept 10, 2017 21:15:50 GMT
I presume the Colonel would have some kind of catering facility to grind his herbs and spices in the 50's at least, but presumably he would buy a majority of his ingredients pre-ground... I've always assumed the herbs were ground otherwise they would have been a little easier to identify.
There are a couple of packages in the museum that mention the Rawleigh's Black Pepper but I'm not sure if it was finely ground or coarse.
I've also always assumed the Colonel used the MSG straight out of its container, but I presently choose to finely grind mine (and the salt) with the herbs and spices just to give the mix greater dispersal in my flour. I do accept it's probably wrong to do it that way.
I'm also convinced, based on current tests with the 99x mix that there is more salt in the main mix than I first thought ... so I need to add more salt to the 115 recipe and reduce some of the ingredients ... I'm trying to figure out how much more salt maybe needed to match the mix, but it's not as simple as I first thought it would be to actually match the Salt level.
It's very much still a work in progress.
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