Poultry

[ThePieMan]

It has been rightly pointed out on a number of occasions and in many forums that the KFC Chickens of today are far different to those of CHS's day. We have discussed how big the chickens should be, portion size-wise, and we have discussed how many portions they should be broken down into. None of this is secret.

The American Poultry Association maintains a list of Heritage Breeds and their origins: www.amerpoultryassn.com/largefowl.htm
For our purpose I will list the APA Heriage Breeds "American" only in summary here.And Mother Earth News has posted a list of Heritage Breeds as well: www.motherearthnews.com/homesteading-and-livestock/heritage-chicken-breeds-zmaz76jmazhar


RECOGNISED LARGE FOWL
Buckeyes 
Delawares
Dominiques
Hollands: Barred, White
Javas: Black, Mottled
Lamonas: White
New Hampshire
Plymouth Rocks: Barred, White, Buff, Silver Penciled, Partridge, Columbian, Blue
Rhode Island Reds: Single Comb, Rose Comb
Rhode Island Whites: Rose Comb
Wyandotte: Silver Laced, Golden Laced, White, Black, Buff, Partridge, Silver Penciled, Columbian, Blue

RECOGNISED BANTAM FOWL (all of the aboves Bantam forms plus)
Serama: White

The challenge now is to identify the specific breed(s) that CHS would have used by choice for his chicken.

Perhaps Eat Wild might be an interesting starting point for further research? www.eatwild.com/products/kentucky.html

Interesting facts about the Kentucky Poultry Industry www.kypoultry.org/pfacts/ from the Kentucky Poultry Federation.

Some research into Heritage Birds. Interestingly they use one, Australian Breed in the study. www.communitychickens.com/heritage-breeds-2/

[ThePieMan]

From the Yellow Birds Kentucky Farm website: yellowbirdfarms.com/the-farm/heritage-poultry/ the only website I could find that listed the "Heritage Birds" that they raise; the following breeds may be of particular interest and further research - Buckeye, Plymouth Rock, Orpington (?) and Dominique.

Orpington is an English Breed. So, an additional aside for research is to explore the question Which English Chicken Breeds were popular in Kentucky when CHS was slinging his chicken, and is it possible he use them?

[ThePieMan]

To keep things together, here is my previous exploration into this topic... kfc11.proboards.com/post/1480/thread (Mar 28, 2017) and here... kfc11.proboards.com/post/2309/thread (Mar 28, 2018)

1: If Chicken is the hero of the dish, Kentucky Fried Chicken, then what does chicken taste like: a) on its own; b) fried; c) breaded and fried; and d) all of the above with additional seasoning?

It also begs the question:
2: At what point does a seasoning, or combination of seasonings begin to dominate the flavour, and at what point can you no longer taste the chicken?

In an attempt to understand question 2 the previous posts have been contributed. In order to come to grips with question one that following papers may be of further interest:

"Tastes Like Chicken." Annals of Improbable Research (pdf), and
"Flavour Chemistry of Chicken Meat: A Review." Asian Australas. Journal of Animal Science (pdf)

In case you missed reading this,

"...Understanding the chemistry of chicken meat flavour is therefore vital in order to produce the most flavourful and consistent product possible. The intent of this paper is to highlight different mechanisms and chemical compounds responsible for chicken meat flavour and off-flavour development in detail and to brief the main factors affecting chicken meat flavour. "

Source: Flavour Chemistry of Chicken Meat: A Review (PDF Download Available). Available from: 
www.researchgate.net/publication/236950274_Flavour_Chemistry_of_Chicken_Meat_A_Review [accessed Mar 28 2018].

On consideration of some of the ideas raised by this paper it begs the questions,

:- What breed and age were the preferred chickens of CHS?
:- How 'fatty' were these chickens?

Other questions relating to the oil type its heat, and age are also critical factors as they directly affect the degree of Maillard Reaction development, and the heat degradation of the volatiles that make up the fried chicken taste.

[ThePieMan]

willy: Here's a list of pasture fed/raised chicken (perhaps heritage) that exist in Oklahoma... you do live in Oklahoma right? www.eatwild.com/products/oklahoma.html (If not, their search engines works quite well)

Hope it helps move your research forward and out of hiatus.

Cheers.

[willy]

I checked a few places, but they were no longer in operation. I had friends that were going to raise heritage birds, but I have not heard from them. They have just started a family. I slowed down the search for heritage chicken after my wife died in August of 2018. I will pick it up this Summer. I have been experimenting with different salts and powdered chicken. I have a theory of replacing the msg with chicken powder, if I can find the right one. I have no proof, but CHS may have gone to msg when the chicken industry changed in the 1950s. You'll notice that most bouillons contain salt and msg. The chicken we buy is simply too large for CHS's system of frying. Wings are smaller, as are cornish game hens, but they are not heritage meat.

[willy]

Trace the degradation of the flavor, and the OR.

www.nationalchickencouncil.org/about-the-industry/history/

[ThePieMan]

An interesting exploration through the poultry world ofUS chicken supply...

[Ken_Griffiths]

May 3, 2020 12:52:44 GMT ThePieMan said:

An interesting exploration through the poultry world ofUS chicken supply...

For some reason I can’t view this video. It says not available to UK users .. oh well, not to worry.😢

[mpmn04]

Not available in Canada too.

[sirius]

lookup morgan spurlock he has got into the chicken buisness now...i watched it a few weeks ago and wow you wouldnt believe the diffrence chicken farming now to back in the day..itll open your eyes to what big corps do.

[ThePieMan]

VPN Ken, sometimes you have to hope and pop to get around the geo-lockout.

[Ken_Griffiths]

May 6, 2020 14:31:42 GMT ThePieMan said:

VPN Ken, sometimes you have to hope and pop to get around the geo-lockout.

Yes, I will have to try that when I get a moment, thanks TPM.👍

[justme]

Well, I finally found the Chicken subforum. It's not obvious from looking at the main page so it took me afew days to find it. Chicken, after all is the most important ingredient. Without the chicken you have no where to put your flour and spices.

- Two markets where I live sell birds raised locally, between 2-1/2 and 3-1/4 lbs, pretty much the ideal size, as stated in the patent, and still are ideal I think.
- They are air chilled, not Cryovac bagged. They absolutely are not waterlogged.
- The breast pieces (rib and keel) are not as pronounced as the big name brands.
- They are killed just 1-2 days before and just 2 hours away I am told by the stores.
- They also DO NOT TASTE LIKE FISH. Some of the "big name" grocery store brands taste like they have been raised with fish meal in their diet. It's in their fat and skin, and it tastes nasty, ESPECIALLY the next day.
- Many do not have pure white skin like the big name grocery store birds. They usually have some black spots on the wing tips and where the feet were. It's not dried blood or anything, it's the skin. They often have a few black feather remnants attached so they are not all white birds.
- They charge 30-50 cents more per pound for them.
- They bleed a lot less than the big name grocery store brands when I cut them up. I wonder if all that chicken blood and the lack thereof negatively affects the big name birds. There is no coagulated blood in the joints.

The little guys fry up absolutely perfectly and actually have taste. I had to go to every store in town, finally to two small markets advertising local produce and meat, to find them. I can ask the names of the farms are that raise them, but I doubt they will tell me directly. Maybe a butcher can tell me the name on the boxes that they come in or I can observe through the windows If so, that farm should have no problem telling me the breed(s).

For now I just avoid the big-name brands and anything in a Cryovac bag and anything that says more than a few percent retained processing water. They just don't fry up right. I also quit using brines and dry rubs after a few attempts in my pressure fryer. I don't think the Colonel brined. It's not in the patented process like every other detail, and I'm not interested in what they do now.

Gotta have the right bird underneath that flour, right?

[ThePieMan]

Absolutely. Thanks for the feedback. A brief cursory search of turn of the 19th century cookbooks show that is was common the, "blonde" freshly killed chicken, that is to pre-treat the killed carcase with salt water to remove some of the blood, before using. This was not a brining process but a purposeful effort to remove as much blood as possible from the birds before the were cooked.

[ThePieMan]

Present day treatment and processing of fresh chicken.
www.chickencheck.in/faq/how-chickens-slaughtered-processed/

USDA Poultry Processing
www.fsis.usda.gov/wps/portal/fsis/topics/food-safety-education/get-answers/food-safety-fact-sheets/production-and-inspection/poultry-processing-questions-and-answers/poultry-processing-questions-answers

__________
For the record, I have no, "beef" with anyone. I welcome all comers and insights that may allow us to reevaluate our thinking and move the research forward. When primary source information is not available to definitively establish facts, then the "context" in which a secondary source point of view, such as childhood eyewitness oral history, or a biography, or autobiography by a second hander, is essential. Context is everything. Statements made without context , whilst potentially interesting or inflammatory, are potentially worthless because there is no way to evaluate the veracity or truthfulness of such statements, or the credibility of the person making the statement.

I DO NOT have the answers. Those older than I do. So with respect, I will listen to what is stated, but with all due respect, please reciprocate and provide as much contextual information as possible, if one cannot provide primary source documentation. It is a simple matter, but one of utmost respect, to respond to genuine questions asking for clarification.

Rant Over.

TPM.