bawarchi
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Post by bawarchi on Jan 29, 2021 20:28:45 GMT
I am a new member here. Thank you to all for providing and participating in this wonderful forum.
After reviewing the images of the various KFC OR Seasoning bags, US and international, it appears that MSG appears in a different order in the ingredient list. For example:
1. The 40 oz, "Ingredient #2" bag shows MSG after "Herbs and Spices".
2. The 2 lb bag from 1998 shows MSG before "Herbs and Spices".
3. The 740g bag from Australia shows MSG before "Herbs and Spices".
4. The 650g bag from South Africa shows MSG before "spice".
Assuming the food labeling guidelines require that the ingredient with the most weight be listed first, has anyone here tried to reconcile that difference?
Thank you.
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Helen
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Post by Helen on Feb 5, 2021 21:28:14 GMT
A very good question, bawarchi!
It does look rather contradictory, doesn't it? I wonder what all the "weight theorists" make of all this...
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Post by Ken_Griffiths on Feb 5, 2021 22:25:48 GMT
My own personal thoughts are that the White Pepper and MSG are possibly equal in weight at 7ozs each.. so recipes maybe something similar to these three ( just shown here as examples): These three are based on 26oz seasoning bags, or 23oz if you were to remove the Salt content. |
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Post by kgp on Feb 7, 2021 14:24:13 GMT
I believe they can list it both ways. As long as they list it.
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Helen
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Post by Helen on Feb 7, 2021 17:57:47 GMT
I believe they can list it both ways. A bold assertion, kgp. I would welcome some details on how, and why, McCormick & Co. and Griffith Laboratories can escape standard food-labelling requirements. |
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Post by kgp on Feb 7, 2021 21:57:53 GMT
These companies have deep pockets. As long as they don't blatantly break the law or get anyone killed they can have liberties. Putting MSG either before or after herbs and spices will do neither. Nobody is going to bat an eye.
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Post by mpmn04 on Feb 7, 2021 22:57:09 GMT
These companies have deep pockets. As long as they don't blatantly break the law or get anyone killed they can have liberties. Putting MSG either before or after herbs and spices will do neither. Nobody is going to bat an eye. I don't think so Tim ....stick ur head out of the box u know what happens! Mike |
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Post by cascader on May 1, 2022 1:20:29 GMT
One possibility is that the MSG amount stayed constant, and the spice content was increased in the 40Oz bag, perhaps due to some reason for reduced extract content, to the extent that the ingredient order was revised to reflect the actual pepper content which likely exceeds the MSG content when more pure spices are used. As we lack spice bags labels from when Claudia was filling them or knowledge of the Marion Kay chicken seasoning product size (prior to 99-x) or its actual ingredients when used by Kentucky Fried locations under CHS’ control it is hard to know for sure. It would not surprise me to learn that the original seasoning blend of each was 30Oz or greater when using pure spice - perhaps even 40Oz, depending on salt content etc. I suspect the actual pepper content (~16-18oz) can be double the MSG content(~5-8oz), by weight, when pure spices are used in a 400oz (25 lb.) flour recipe. What is also unclear is what lead to this potentially increased pure spice content and the 40oz bag use by the corporation vs the established smaller size. Oleoresin supply chain issues? Manufacturing issues? Vendor disputes? Did it have a special use like with an automatic cooker or breader that required extra “zing”? I’m unclear on the history and timeline here. I seem to recall some current use of 40 Oz seasoning? Perhaps unlikely, but putting MSG lower on the list as an ingredient trial might be part of a “clean” labeling approach as seeing MSG so high might be a turn-off for some consumers. India, for example had a lawsuit with KFC over MSG content. In this lawsuit some KFC MSG levels are discussed (albeit India so the OR might be modified to IMOR or similar), and there is interesting info about a well known extract supplier Kancor who supplies Griffith foods and McCormick with oleoresins and spices. indiankanoon.org/doc/759246/www.casemine.com/judgement/in/56093b01e4b0149711228573Some spice imports: import.report/company/Mccormick-Co-Incimport.report/company/Griffith-Foods-Incimport.report/company/Glendale-Whse-Dist-Corp/page/1 |
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Post by cascader on May 1, 2022 17:17:04 GMT
Here is a link to the post with a picture of a 2016 38oz ? bag from willy with MSG later in the description after spices. kfc11.proboards.com/post/4568/thread2016: (McCormick / Griffith? ) Ingredients; Herbs and Spices, Monosodium Glutamate, salt, garlic powder. 1998: (Stange / McCormick) Ingredients; Monosodium Glutamate, Herbs and Spices, salt, garlic powder. I think these bags take different amounts of salt, per the discussion. (2lbs 5oz for 2016 with pic in the linked thread). If they removed 11oz of salt for the 2016 bag, it is possible they chose to use salt as an extract carrier, (as the salt stayed below the MSG in both cases) which might be less dense than the Stange process, when they shifted from McCormick / Stange to McCormick / Griffith. Stange may also have been using gelatin at one point (the sticky source?), if not one of their patented processes discussed in the Stange patent thread. And here is a 40Oz packet use descriptor, with associated salt, yielding 74 heads, or 681 pieces of chicken, with 25 lbs of flour for those doing math on other areas, like carbohydrates and sodium. It is unfortunately not 100% clear to me that this is for original recipe chicken and not double breaded extra crispy. The original manual specified chickens between 2.25 and 2.5 lbs. I’m not sure what that current weights are. kfc11.proboards.com/attachment/download/327 |
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Post by silver on May 1, 2022 20:15:40 GMT
From the above it looks like the average (mixed) piece of KFC chicken should have about 13.0 grams of carbohydrates. That's nearly 50 calories per mixed piece which is attributable to the flour coating alone.
There are ~78 grams of carbohydrates in every 100 grams of Cake Flour. (and ~73.3 grams of carbs in 100 grams of All Purpose White Flour)
11,340 ÷ 100 × 78 ÷ 680 = 13.00
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Post by silver on May 2, 2022 11:52:39 GMT
From the above it looks like the average (mixed) piece of KFC chicken should have about 13.0 grams of carbohydrates. That's nearly 50 calories per mixed piece which is attributable to the flour coating alone. There are ~78 grams of carbohydrates in every 100 grams of Cake Flour. (and ~73.3 grams of carbs in 100 grams of All Purpose White Flour) 11,340 ÷ 100 × 78 ÷ 680 = 13.00 Interestingly enough, KFC says that carbohydrate grams are (on average for mixed pieces) 6.5 grams per piece. Exactly half of what I calculated. Hmmm? Is their loss factor for their coating mix at 50%? www.kfc.com/full-nutrition-guide |
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Post by jwoz on May 2, 2022 14:49:23 GMT
This is interesting.
It isn't a trivial undertaking to change packaging and the labeling on the same, since packaging is likely produced in advance and in bulk. So these differences and changes would be thought out and considered well in advance.
As we know, MSG has gotten something of a bad reputation (undeserved, IMHO) and, as is pointed out above, some companies have been pushing for a "clean" or "cleaner" label for some time now. The use of (even on a trial basis) of I+G or some yeast extract in lieu of some MSG would theoretically reduce the weight of the MSG, which could be desirable or even necessary in some countries.
And as said above we generally assume that extracts are more "powerful" by weight than their pure spice counterparts and, if that is true, then using more extracts would decrease the overall spice weight, and using less would increase it. That could be due to supply issues, general experimentation, etc.
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