Second Component of CHS's Magic . . . Pressure Frying

[btb]

In the thread above entitled Glen & Friends Cooking - LeGourmet TV, there had been an EXPLOSION of commentary since Glen posted his very belated Episode #10. In a very short time after his posting episode #10, the number of pages on just that one thread alone skyrocketed from 14 to 64 pages (at current count) on this website. Most, if not all, the commentary therein completely ignored the second and similarly important second component of the CHS -- the magic chicken product's -- cooking methodology.

Much was talked about in that thread above about this "ingredient . . . or that one," . . . whether there were 4 or 5 types of pepper in CHS' H&S formulation, . . . whether as Glen said that 99-X was "99% there," . . . whether a spice blend from Ireland (of all places) would lead all to the CHS' secret Valhalla, etc.  As I have "no dog in the fight" here, I happily read, observed and wondered about much of the commentary.  It is totally immaterial to the point here, but as some know, I've been very happy with a modified 99-X usage (some additives) for my chicken breading/coating purposes.  To me, it' may not be Valhalla, but very"close enough."  But, again, that's totally besides the point here.

Looking back at . . . maybe a year or two ago? Glen & Company started what on YouTube?  A thread about making or producing in all our home kitchens one of the most popular food products on the modern day planet . . . Colonel Harland Sanders famous Kentucky Fried Chicken (aka KFC).  Wow, that was an incredibly challenging feat to start with, wasn't it?  That's been tried before, but without much success.  But yours' and my taste buds were maybe salivating, and with episode #1, the interest similarly skyrocketed on YouTube to Glen's and others' surprise. It showed a lot of pent up interest in making KFC style and it's wonderfully tasting chicken right there in our home kitchens.  So Glen continued thru an unusually high number of episodes covering just one cooking effort.  Eh?

As many of our veteran contributors above can and have said, that there has always been at least two components to the CHS KFC magic meal.  The first being what has filled the most subject threads above . . . the breading/coating composition, the degree of special H&S's that are included, the ways of handling the chicken product (maybe brining or other handling), etc.

But in my estimation, another critical aspect, the second component, has been passed over for some reason in connection with Glen & Company's #10 episode.  Starting with episode #1, Glen gave information, tips, opinions, expressions and advise thru his youtube production relating to the 2nd component with his use of a nifty "Chicken Express" pressure fryer. And thru many, many episodes he raved about the affect and tasty result of pressure frying the chicken with such equipment and technique: " . . . and that's so good because of pressure frying . ." were his similar comments.

Needless to say, one can recite numerous quotes from Glen's many praises over those many episodes of the great taste of the pressured frying versus cooking such otherwise.  But as all witnessed, Glen abandoned the pressure frying methodology for some unexplained and unknown reason in episode #9, but magically reversed himself in the long delayed  #10 -- again without explanation to many of us who would like more information, advice, thoughts and comments about using a pressure fryer to accomplish what so many want to achieve. Some had commented about Glen's statement in #9 . . . "oh, it doesn't make a difference . . . "  But it sure did when in #10 he brought back the pressure fryer and was super supportive of its use.  Obviously IMHO, this was terribly mishandled and a big let down.

I and I hope others will try to contribute below more information, reasons, thoughts and comments regarding successfully accomplishing the important second component of CHS's great pressure fried chicken magic in this "Pressure Frying" thread.

[willy]

The biggest problem I face was highlighted the time my rocker wasn't seated correctly and the pressure did not build up properly. The chicken was overcooked. On the Tennessee Ernie Ford Show, notice what Minnie Pearl said about the chicken when CHS was removing the the chicken from the pot. Notice what TEF said also. The chicken was overcooked. This was not a cooking set up that CHS was familiar with. So what are we to do? I have several queries about the technique.

Did CHS mislead others when he talked about the temperature of the oil when the chicken is dropped? TEF and MP were watching and I wonder if CHS was pressured to "overcook" his chicken.

Whatever others do, I wonder if the time is off. I think maybe that we should adjust whatever we do to cook the chicken (not sure if this is total time, or just the pressured time) in 6 1/2 to 7 minutes, or 8 to 9 minutes, whichever source is correct. You can't trust KFC employees because they don't cook on what we cook on.

[cascader]

Attached is some info on suggested time and temp with a commercial pressure fryer. The H’s are temps, the T’s are times in a countdown timer. The times and temps are programmable. Cooking progresses from left to right, either along a linear time path, or a weight compensated one (process2) which would speed up for less weight in the basket etc.

O/P is Pressure or Open fry. You can see the Open Fry happen at the end of each timeline to get ready for product removal.

There are 6 different processes available so that preprogramming can be accomplished for different types of food or conditions, but only a couple examples are shown.  Each process has 6 programmable time intervals. 

Obviously, temperature changes can’t take place instantaneously, but it is worth noting that there is a 4:1 oil:product ratio.

The heater is 10,500 watts.  
Capacity is 18 lbs chicken plus 75 lbs of oil.  I haven’t done a details calculation of how quickly temperature changes could be made to that much oil, but an online calc I have never used before and may have erred with suggested 5 degrees in 30 seconds for the 36 liters.  

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[ThePieMan]

Apr 2, 2021 15:45:52 GMT btb said:

... I and I hope others will try to contribute below more information, reasons, thoughts and comments regarding successfully accomplishing the important second component of CHS's great pressure fried chicken magic in this "Pressure Frying" thread.

Contribute in what specific way? Commentary on G&F's frying methods or on pressure frying in general?

If the first, then Q&A would be a good way to move forward. If the latter, then there are already several detailed discussions (kfc11.proboards.com/board/19/pressure-frying) on that methodology, and the science behind it. As for practical application, Ken_Griffiths has discussed (kfc11.proboards.com/post/262/thread, kfc11.proboards.com/post/901/thread, kfc11.proboards.com/post/1789/thread) his recommended step process, and cautions, based on what is known in the patents and what has been trialed and error-ed in other forums.

Lastly, there are several "Chicken Express" (Kuroma-style benchtop pressure fryer) videos floating around (www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Chicken+Express+pressure+fryer, www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLdvoeLAELm1wyH0NxVaSUfCmkYhuvS0lY), G&F's are not the only game in town.

I'm all for consolidating info into what, if worthy enough, could rate a Q&A, "Sticky" but maybe the first step would be to pull out a few questions for clarification...

jm2cw

TPM.

[cascader]

This patent from the Winston collectramatic series (Method and apparatus for cooking chicken) patents.google.com/?inventor=Winston+L.+Shelton may be of interest to some.

These patents are before the current programmable timers / controllers.

One describes the operation of the dead weight pressure system, which is described as being designed for about 12psi, and using a ratio of 2:1 for oil to chicken weight, along with lots of other tidbits.

Some additional improvements may be found here under the assignee MIES : patents.google.com/patent/US3973481A/en?assignee=MIES+PRODUCTS%2c+INC. Including initial chicken temp of 45, and pressure of 14-15PSI, draining improvements etc.

Having watched various current service videos, read inspection checklists etc. it appears the pressure mechanism remans the same, with controller improvements, and a shift from a discrete ball to a ball ended rod on the dead weight, perhaps for safety. The primary sensor appears to be temperature.

I am not positive, but suspect the modern 8000 series control product weight programmability in channel P2 is not load cell based, built rather heuristics based on temperature drop and rise rates.  If it was weight based I would expect to find a calibration procedure, a startup programming step to tell the controller what the empty weight is, without chicken, but with removable racks installed, troubleshooting guides checking for excessive friction, breading buildup, or binding etc. and I have not seen any sign of that.

That said I suspect there is a reason why channels P3, P4 are not shown in the manual, either planned future features, hidden features, or other TBD reasons.

Note that the higher temps described may be detrimental to recipes using traditional spices.

[jwoz]

My personal view of this is that, since we are doing this at home with real H&S, and not with extracts that may have been engineered to work with specific times and temperatures, we should refer back to what KFC was doing back in the days that they were using pressure pots on stoves.

I have two of those original pots and I cook with them. Nowadays, I use them almost 100% of the time that I do my chicken experiments, which is once or sometimes twice a week. They work almost exactly like the patent says they should.

If you use 5 pounds of chicken and a standard amount of oil, if you drop at 400F and open fry the chicken for 1.5 minutes and then cap the cooker, it comes up to pressure in exactly two minutes (you can almost set a watch by it). If you start timing the cook from the moment you cap the cooker - at which point you have already open fried for 1.5 minutes - then 9 minutes (10.5 minutes, including the "open fry" time) is the point at which "bone in" chicken can be guaranteed to be thoroughly cooked (not bloody at the bone), but I have found that the temperature of the chicken going into the cooker is important because if, for example, you take your chicken directly from the refrigerator, bread it and drop it in the fryer, you run a risk of some pieces not being completely done, but if you let the chicken pieces warm up on the counter sufficiently before breading them then all will be well.

The temperature of my oil when the cooker is uncapped at the end of the cook is around 260F, which is somewhat above the 250F that is mentioned in the patent, but that's at least partly a function of how much heat I apply to the pot during the capped period of cooking, which I suppose I could reduce slightly.

The patent talks about dropping at 375F if a lesser amount of chicken is used. I haven't tried that because I always use the full amount of chicken. I have also seen an old post by Swamprocker where he discusses a somewhat different technique that involves open frying at 375F for a longer period of time (around 3 minutes) then capping the cooker and cooking again for a longer period of time (more like 11 or 12 minutes). I haven't tried that, but it is interesting. I think that there is a dance here. As I understand it, the degradation of H&S flavor may be a function of both cooking temperature and cooking time, and I don't know how much each contributes. So I'm not exactly sure what the result would be if the drop temp were reduced by 25 degrees in favor of several minutes extra cooking time. I do know, however, that chicken cooked like the patent states is very, very flavorful, so its hard to see how that would be improved although I'm sure I'll test the Swamprocker technique at some point.