Post by ThePieMan on Apr 23, 2021 5:49:53 GMT
As I lay awake this morning, eyes closed, ruminating this thought or that, that social butterfly known as attention settled down amongst a group of hearsay, more commonly known as KFC Stories well, you might say, "eye witness reports.
The number one big story we've all heard is of CHS storming around mouthing off about, "Jamaican Ginger." Next to this are the Todd Wilber interviews where he reports, a) she said that he said that she said that Sage and Savory make...blah, blah, blah; and, b) he said, Tellichery Black Pepper...blah, blah... On top of this there are biographies, news reports, food critics, scientific papers, and advertisements that purport to reveal certain information about the O.R.
As I lay, with my mind preoccupied by these and other thoughts, it occurred to me that these stories have become cannon in the O.R. Research community, are taken at face value, and are not questioned. Why should they be questioned, they sound reasonable enough, and the people reported to have told them seem reputable enough, don't they? That's when it hit me, yes! too reasonable, too convenient. In particular the Todd Wilbur episode, and that fantastic advertisement where the Colonel is being tortured by some buxom and nubile, though somewhat frustrated housewives - Do you really think the Colonel is not having a good time?
Most of this is carefully constructed propaganda. It is designed to seem reasonable, laughable, etc. in order to deflect/manipulate public attention for one reason or another. Let's take the one's already mentioned.
IF we can trust the labelling, and believe that that is NOT falsified by declaring ingredients not in the O.R. Seasoning (I'm looking at you Garlic!) then we know that there is: Salt, MSG, White Pepper, Black Pepper, and Garlic in the mix. this is to some extent corroborated by one food critic's analysis, and one or two scientific analyses.
Jamaican Ginger:
The story claims that the Colonel was in a Franchisee's establishment, did a tasting and fumed about the recipe being changed, namely that "they" were using some inferior (implied) ginger and not, "Jamaican" ginger. Let's look at that for a moment.
Q: At what amount, against a background of salt, msg, white pepper, black pepper, and garlic, can one reasonably identify the presence of ginger in the mix?
Q: Further, at what amount in the mix can one determine the origin of the ginger?
Q: Lastly, how fundamentally and identifiably doe the taste of ginger change from one origin to another to make a substantive and protestable difference?
Tellicherry Pepper:
Todd Wilbur is/was, (he is still alive, but his fame may have somewhat moved on...) well known for his "Secret Recipe" series.He would not have been able to make the KFC Original Recipe episode without cooperation from the Corporation.As he is an entertainer, he would have needed to glean "some secret information" out of some people in order to maintain viewer ratings. This kind of program is highly scripted and planned propaganda.The Corporation must be seen and shown to be revealing, begrudgingly, surreptitiously, "in secret" something "believable" without giving away anything at all. Thus, we have two highly trusted persons of great KFC reputation revealing cautiously some juicy tid-bit that allows good old Toddy to toddle off and play with some chicken.
Now, as with Ginger:
Q: Is it possible, through lab analysis, to identify the origin of pepper used in cooked chicken? If so, why has this not been done? Has it been done?
Q: Pepper size does impact the flavour of the spice, but does it sufficiently change flavour to be noticeable to the taster of cooked chicken? Like with Ginger, it the difference sufficient for one to stomp, bang a cane, and fume, "the B*$#*rds are not using Tellicherry Pepper!" is it that significant?
Sage & Savory:
These two are in a different class, same issues as with the Todd, but different observations and concerns. Firstly, the Colonel's mother may well have considered both sage and savory to be fine herbs for seasoning chicken, but seasoning for which reason? Skillet frying, roasting, force-meat stuffing, poaching, boiling, stewing, as a pie filling? Next, the Colonel, may well have used a fine recipe from his mother when he first started out, but he had help from other cooks and his own ideas, so there is no quantitative or qualitative indication that he would have continued using either or both herbs in he eventual proprietary blend. Yet, for whatever reason, it is taken as gospel-given that these specific herbs are in the mix.
Now, before you yell me down, I Know, that we have to start somewhere, and that for at least two generations of researchers: Salt, MSG, White Pepper*, Tellichery Black Pepper*, (Garlic,) Jamaican Ginger*, Sage*, & Savory*; have formed the unshakeable backbone of recipe development. I'm pointing out that more than half these fundamental* herbs and spices are undeniably based on cleverly scripted hearsay, i.e. corporate propaganda.
Now, in light of recent, reinvention of the wheel, again, with going back to one's basic, "five" etc. ad inf. I guess I needed to mull over these base assumptions and consider them again, and the above commentary is what disturbs me. Elsewhere on this forum, I've looked at various herbs and spice blends, two even came out commercially, back in the day, with eleven ingredients in each. Various industry journals have shed some light on availability, origins, and blends of a variety of herbs and spices available on the US market, and many turn of the century and pre-WWII Southern Cookbooks have shown taste preferences for particular herb and spice combinations for use with southern fried chicken.
Now, whether CHS took commercial poultry seasoning, and blended it with pickling spice or breakfast sausage (a sort of spiced, pork mince hamburger) seasoning and blended that altogether, with his mum's recipe, and the input from a couple of other cooks, stole his base recipe outright (remember, you cannot copyright a recipe, so was it stolen?) or developed it by trial and error because he wasn't happy with any of the existing commercial offerings, is kinda moot; does make for good mythology though...
Personally, I believe there is ginger in the pepper mix but I am not so certain its at a level where you can taste and identify the terroir; and I also think there may be cayenne in there as well, although the Chinese study doesn't bear that out. As for sage and savory, and the origin of black pepper? Perhaps they are bones thrown to us dogs by a benevolent Corporation? Perhaps not. You decide.
The number one big story we've all heard is of CHS storming around mouthing off about, "Jamaican Ginger." Next to this are the Todd Wilber interviews where he reports, a) she said that he said that she said that Sage and Savory make...blah, blah, blah; and, b) he said, Tellichery Black Pepper...blah, blah... On top of this there are biographies, news reports, food critics, scientific papers, and advertisements that purport to reveal certain information about the O.R.
As I lay, with my mind preoccupied by these and other thoughts, it occurred to me that these stories have become cannon in the O.R. Research community, are taken at face value, and are not questioned. Why should they be questioned, they sound reasonable enough, and the people reported to have told them seem reputable enough, don't they? That's when it hit me, yes! too reasonable, too convenient. In particular the Todd Wilbur episode, and that fantastic advertisement where the Colonel is being tortured by some buxom and nubile, though somewhat frustrated housewives - Do you really think the Colonel is not having a good time?
Most of this is carefully constructed propaganda. It is designed to seem reasonable, laughable, etc. in order to deflect/manipulate public attention for one reason or another. Let's take the one's already mentioned.
IF we can trust the labelling, and believe that that is NOT falsified by declaring ingredients not in the O.R. Seasoning (I'm looking at you Garlic!) then we know that there is: Salt, MSG, White Pepper, Black Pepper, and Garlic in the mix. this is to some extent corroborated by one food critic's analysis, and one or two scientific analyses.
Jamaican Ginger:
The story claims that the Colonel was in a Franchisee's establishment, did a tasting and fumed about the recipe being changed, namely that "they" were using some inferior (implied) ginger and not, "Jamaican" ginger. Let's look at that for a moment.
Q: At what amount, against a background of salt, msg, white pepper, black pepper, and garlic, can one reasonably identify the presence of ginger in the mix?
Q: Further, at what amount in the mix can one determine the origin of the ginger?
Q: Lastly, how fundamentally and identifiably doe the taste of ginger change from one origin to another to make a substantive and protestable difference?
Tellicherry Pepper:
Todd Wilbur is/was, (he is still alive, but his fame may have somewhat moved on...) well known for his "Secret Recipe" series.He would not have been able to make the KFC Original Recipe episode without cooperation from the Corporation.As he is an entertainer, he would have needed to glean "some secret information" out of some people in order to maintain viewer ratings. This kind of program is highly scripted and planned propaganda.The Corporation must be seen and shown to be revealing, begrudgingly, surreptitiously, "in secret" something "believable" without giving away anything at all. Thus, we have two highly trusted persons of great KFC reputation revealing cautiously some juicy tid-bit that allows good old Toddy to toddle off and play with some chicken.
Now, as with Ginger:
Q: Is it possible, through lab analysis, to identify the origin of pepper used in cooked chicken? If so, why has this not been done? Has it been done?
Q: Pepper size does impact the flavour of the spice, but does it sufficiently change flavour to be noticeable to the taster of cooked chicken? Like with Ginger, it the difference sufficient for one to stomp, bang a cane, and fume, "the B*$#*rds are not using Tellicherry Pepper!" is it that significant?
Sage & Savory:
These two are in a different class, same issues as with the Todd, but different observations and concerns. Firstly, the Colonel's mother may well have considered both sage and savory to be fine herbs for seasoning chicken, but seasoning for which reason? Skillet frying, roasting, force-meat stuffing, poaching, boiling, stewing, as a pie filling? Next, the Colonel, may well have used a fine recipe from his mother when he first started out, but he had help from other cooks and his own ideas, so there is no quantitative or qualitative indication that he would have continued using either or both herbs in he eventual proprietary blend. Yet, for whatever reason, it is taken as gospel-given that these specific herbs are in the mix.
Now, before you yell me down, I Know, that we have to start somewhere, and that for at least two generations of researchers: Salt, MSG, White Pepper*, Tellichery Black Pepper*, (Garlic,) Jamaican Ginger*, Sage*, & Savory*; have formed the unshakeable backbone of recipe development. I'm pointing out that more than half these fundamental* herbs and spices are undeniably based on cleverly scripted hearsay, i.e. corporate propaganda.
Now, in light of recent, reinvention of the wheel, again, with going back to one's basic, "five" etc. ad inf. I guess I needed to mull over these base assumptions and consider them again, and the above commentary is what disturbs me. Elsewhere on this forum, I've looked at various herbs and spice blends, two even came out commercially, back in the day, with eleven ingredients in each. Various industry journals have shed some light on availability, origins, and blends of a variety of herbs and spices available on the US market, and many turn of the century and pre-WWII Southern Cookbooks have shown taste preferences for particular herb and spice combinations for use with southern fried chicken.
Now, whether CHS took commercial poultry seasoning, and blended it with pickling spice or breakfast sausage (a sort of spiced, pork mince hamburger) seasoning and blended that altogether, with his mum's recipe, and the input from a couple of other cooks, stole his base recipe outright (remember, you cannot copyright a recipe, so was it stolen?) or developed it by trial and error because he wasn't happy with any of the existing commercial offerings, is kinda moot; does make for good mythology though...
Personally, I believe there is ginger in the pepper mix but I am not so certain its at a level where you can taste and identify the terroir; and I also think there may be cayenne in there as well, although the Chinese study doesn't bear that out. As for sage and savory, and the origin of black pepper? Perhaps they are bones thrown to us dogs by a benevolent Corporation? Perhaps not. You decide.
