puma14
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Post by puma14 on Dec 27, 2016 16:59:01 GMT
In my country, people are crazy about gravy.
That is why they have gravy dispensers in the dining area for customer refill.
But I notice that the color and taste of the gravy in the dispenser is lighter and less tasty, i guess they dilute it.
Anyways, my question is about the gravy having potato like taste.
I am thinking since KFC has mashed potatoes, maybe they use the water used in boiling the potatoes in making gravy?
Or are they using potato flour?
Is it really potato like taste? I am not sure. Maybe because of milk? Or just because of the herbs and spices?
I am not even sure if todays KFC gravy has the same recipe/taste around the world
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Post by ThePieMan on Apr 2, 2017 9:53:00 GMT
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Post by ThePieMan on Apr 2, 2017 11:40:42 GMT
btw, for basic technique, I recommend you watch a basic milk gravy get nocked up by Betty. Some things for making good gravy...  2T chicken cracklings 4T milk 1T Chicken Demi-glace 1T seasoned flour 1/2T butter 1/2T cream (as you like) hot water to adjust gravy thickness as desired. "...throw away the chicken and just eat the gravy."  |
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puma14
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Post by puma14 on Apr 2, 2017 17:24:58 GMT
Thanks for the responses  |
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Post by ThePieMan on Jun 1, 2018 19:26:47 GMT
It's 2:40 in the morning here in Shanghai and I've been up since a quarter to. (I did sleep for a few hours, but...) What's keeping me up is "Gravy." More specifically what is the percentage of Seasoning Mix per litre of gravy?
In another thread we discussed the merits of testing recipes by adding a bit of mix to flour and making some gravy out of it, but that discussion was incomplete and somewhat incoherent, but not without some points worthy of considering. Anyway, back to the question keeping me entertained this evening.
From Ken's latest and greatest, and to be sure many of the previous recipes before, we have 13g spice mix (including msg) to 200g flour, that is a "Seasoned Flour Mix" that is 7.5% Seasoning.
From the TCK forum (see pics above, copy them, save them) the 1952 Gravy contains 1.912% (approx.) Seasoning, derived from 110g Cracklings + 34g Seasoned Flour in 565 ml of liquid.
For the purpose of this exercise, I ignored the other recipes that seem to have 148 g Seasoned Flour to 500 ml liquid, which seems to be more but, as they say, "More is less" in this particular case and the quality I'm sure all can agree has faded with the times. BTW, some people were harping on about "Onion" in the O.R.? If you look at the last recipe above, here might be the sauce (sic.) of that conjecture, the McCormick Gravy Powder?
So, onwards...
The take home for this exercise is:
For 1000ml of liquid you need to add 19.12g of Seasoning Mix (including msg).
How you make the gravy thereafter is a matter of choice. Here is mine...
Recipe A - Traditional Roux Based Gravy
10.8 g of your preferred seasoning mix
133.2 g breading flour
250 ml Milk
250 ml Chicken Stock
32.5 ml Cream
32.5 ml (equiv.) Butter
____________________
32.5 ml (equiv.) Rendered Chicken Fat
32.5 ml (equiv) Deep Fryer / Pressure Cooker Oil of choice
Cracklings
1. Season the flour (or use 144 g of pre-seasoned flour) and separate into two - 34g and 110g piles
2. Take 110g of seasoned flour toss in the chicken fat to form clumps and fry in oil until golden brown, drain.
Gravy
1. Take the cracklings and remaining seasoned flour combine in a hot pan with melted butter over moderate heat and brown (peanut butter)
2. Combine the milk and chicken stock and gradually add to the brown roux stirring constantly to avoid making lots of floury lumps and clumps.
3. Add the cream, blend well and simmer until the desired thickness is achieved. If too thick, thin with stock, if to thin, simmer gently, longer.
Pass the gravy through a sieve (if a smooth gravy is desired) and check the seasoning.
Enjoy.
Recipe B - Non-Traditional
10.8 g of your preferred seasoning mix
250 ml Milk
250 ml Chicken Stock
32.5 ml Cream
32.5 ml (equiv.) Rendered Chicken Fat
1 Tbs + 1 tsp Agar-Agar (approx.)
1. Lightly dry roast the Seasoning Mix until fragrant, do not burn, then add the chicken fat and warm through. (this is your spice oil carrier)
2. Combine the agar-agar with the milk and blend very well so as there are no lumps.
3. Add the milk, cream and stock to the warm spiced fat and bring to a fast simmer (85-90 deg. C) stirring all the while.
4. Simmer lightly for 5 min. and then allow to cool and set.
5. Once set, blend well to break up the gel into a smooth smooth pourable consistency. Heat accordingly and serve.
Enjoy.
Notes:
a) The second recipe uses an approximation of 1 Tbs Agar-Agar to 400ml Liquid. To adjust the consistency to a thinner sauce, increase the amount of milk or stock used by 10-20%
b) As agar-agar can create a creamy mouthfeel on its own, for a healthier option, substitute water, stock, or milk for the cream, this is non-traditional after all.
Both these recipes in their own right produce good tasting gravy, the thing to remember taste will greatly vary depending on whether you use chicken stock or water. With chicken stock, this too needs to be consistent, basic stock? rich roasted stock? diluted demi-glace? an OXO cube? None of the above?
One criticism of the gravy test for spice blends was that after pressure frying, the cracklings carried with them a certain amount of "chicken flavour" however this is not quantifiable, hence the suggestion to use small amount of rendered chicken fat in the early preps.
How much flavour are we trying to compensate for here? I don't know, but the TCK Forum called for plain boiled water in their suggested recipes. So, You decide: water or stock? It's your choice.
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Post by ThePieMan on Jun 4, 2018 9:43:43 GMT
For reference only, quite some time back some manuals were shared around, one was a 1970's Store Manager's Manual (apparently) and the other of a more dubious source, but seemed to be contemporary to the Store Manager's Manual. Here's the "Official" method for KFC Gravy, which I'm sure you'll note are almost identical. However, this is not the way CHS made his gravy - just to get that one out of the way. 
Note: (if I've got the math right) ... The ratio of cracklings to gravy mix is 3:1 - which is slightly MORE than the ratios given for 1971 in the TCK images above.
Enjoy. |
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Post by ThePieMan on Jun 8, 2018 1:06:48 GMT
Cracklings 1. Season the flour (or use 144 g of pre-seasoned flour) and separate into two - 34g and 110g piles 2. Take 110g of seasoned flour toss in the chicken fat to form clumps and fry in oil until golden brown, drain. Rethinking this... How are the cracklings originally made? Chicken is dipped in a liquid then tossed in seasoned flour, racked and then immersed into hot oil. In the process lumps of flour, and some amount of loose fines drop into the oil and fall to the bottom of the broiler where it is collected in an unheated section, to prevent it burning, and is later recycled to make crackling gravy. The above recipe does make a nice roux base, but doesn't diverse sized cracklings make. To reproduce the crackling making process in a stovetop skillet, one needs to season the flour, (including powdered skim milk and egg white powder) then dip their hands into water and sprinkle this over the seasoned flour mix. This creates lumps in the flour. The flour then needs to be shaken well and deposited into the skillet containing at least a centimetre of oil and chicken fat where the cracklings can be cooked off to a rich golden brown. From here they need to be strained and then used to make the cracking gravy. Above mentions water, egg white powder and powdered skim milk, the alternative is to make up a fresh egg and skim milk wash and add droplets of the wash into the seasoned flour. If you want to get real, "Chefy" and go all out, "molecular gastronomy" technical? Use a syringe, or a roast/turkey baster, or multi-pipette dispenser, or burette, to add drops of water or egg wash, to the seasoned flour.  |
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Post by ThePieMan on Jul 7, 2019 20:01:42 GMT
Today in Braunschweig, Germany I stopped at KFC and sampled a tub of mashed potato and gravy.
It was about twice the portion size of that served in Shanghai, China, and the gravy was paler, with a slight yellow tinge.
As in China, I detected a distinct aroma and taste of Celery. but, in this German incarnation I also distinctly detected carrot - mirepoix!
It would seem they are not making CHS's gravy in Germany. My guess is that it is a European Chicken stock mix with cornflour... it is certainly not milky. The taste was all wrong and fundamentally disappointing.
However, it has led me not to consider, that KCF Gravy will not assist us with determining what's in the O.R. Today's gravy is not the same recipe the world over, that is a FACT! Nor are the mashed potatoes. I was so disappointed with this combo today that after two spoonfuls, I tossed the lot. What a bloody waste.
It has also allowed me to clarify a nagging question that I've recently been entertaining: Why can I taste Celery in the gravy and not in the breading? Its such a strong and characteristically identifiable herb? Answer: Because, celery is not in the O.R.
jm2cw
TPM
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Post by ThePieMan on Jul 8, 2020 9:33:33 GMT
Jun 1, 2017 0:08:30 GMT 8 Ken_Griffiths said: TPM, What I don't understand is that it was recently mentioned on the forum that nutmeg was added to the Colonels gravy, but I've never seen that... and the links above make no mention of it at all, though I can see that the Colonel used a small pinch of Nutmeg in his 'chicken and dumplin's' recipe. So it looks like there wasn't any in his gravy after all. __________ I keep reading this over, and over, and over. Still, to this date, I have not seen any clear evidence of such a claim. Perhaps I'm just going blind. I HAVE seen the old newspaper article with a couple of the Colonel's recipes that some stated had nutmeg in the gravy recipe, but I did not see it in the recipe posted. Frankly it really gets on my goat, I'd like to see the proof of nutmeg in the gravy recipe. I'm pretty certain this was nailed down loooong ago, I just haven't seen it.
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Post by willy on Jul 8, 2020 14:47:52 GMT
I read an article, which I may have in my archives, about the "gathering" somewhere where CHS helped a lady make gravy. He told her to increase black pepper and add nutmeg. Can't find it anymore? Tell me that the "net" can't be manipulated and censored!
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Post by dprovo on Jul 9, 2020 4:27:06 GMT
TPM,
You must be talking about the article where he says to add 1/8th of a tsp of poultry seasoning and I believe a pinch of nutmeg. I used to have it, I’ll try looking for it. I find it ruins it, and reminds me of egg nog.
Nutmeg does share some similar compounds with marjoram.
Dustin
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Post by ThePieMan on Jul 9, 2020 5:07:16 GMT
That is what I understood, but nothing concrete to indicate it might be in the O.R.
If CHS ever made béchamel sauce, he'd have put nutmeg in it. custards, pumpkin, or chicken pot pie, etc., nutmeg is a wonderful ingredient. strong, powerful, very noticeable.You have to consider what and how it contributes to a blend and depending on amount used.It may perhaps be in the O.R. of old, and contribute to the bready, semi-sweet note, along with ginger, allspice/star-anise, clove etc., but at what amount.
We only have the so-called 1970's Manager's manual to tell us what the corp. did to make gravy, along with the newspaper article detailing chicken and dumpin's, neither indicate to use nutmeg in the gravy.
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Post by dprovo on Jul 30, 2020 21:20:31 GMT
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Post by dprovo on Jul 30, 2020 21:22:49 GMT
There it is guys the dumpling recipe with nutmeg.
1/8 tsp of poultry seasoning and a pinch of nutmeg.
You can inference that whatever poultry seasoning he was using didn’t contain nutmeg.
Dustin
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KFC Gravy
Jul 30, 2020 23:47:57 GMT
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Post by yahyarazi on Jul 30, 2020 23:47:57 GMT
What caught my attention was use of both nutmeg and mace in the apple pie recipe. I have tried both in fried chicken and can't rule out the possiblity that both might be in it.
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