Old Posts From TCK Forum

[Ken_Griffiths]

I think there are now real concerns that the 'legendary' TCK Forum may have been taken offline for good.

As some members here still occasionally encounter some important 'archive' pages from that Forum, I thought it might be useful to have a section here on the kfc11 to be able to 'copy and paste' some of the old important posts or threads and store them here in this separate area, for posterity.

It would be good practice if the actual TCK text can be copied here, rather than simply taking a screenshot image, as that will allow the kfc11 forum search facility to index the full text and make the old TCK posts discoverable.

As this archive grows over time, please be sure to check that any post you decide to 'copy and paste' here, does not already exist and that will hopefully help to keep duplicates to a minimum.

Please note you can only add things here in reply to this post and new threads cannot be created separately in this forum section (at the moment).

From time to time I will go through this archive section and do my best to try to keep things tidy. If this thread does begin to grow in popularity, then I will separate the TCK archived posts out into separate threads and then allow the members to create their own threads, but thought I would keep things nice and simple for the time being.

According to kfc11 member TheTaxidermist, an archived copy of the old TCK Forum can be found HERE.

Ken Griffiths
kfc11 administrator
'Please note kfc11 is not responsible for the content of external Internet sites.'

[Ken_Griffiths]

'The Visit' - Mike Hall

Every time I unpack a shipment of “99-X” chicken seasoning that comes into our office for The Pines, my mind goes back to a surprise visit a man paid me back in the early 80’s…

I was very young, about 23. It was unusual for me to be working in the office but Mom and Dad were gone and I was answering the phone. A phone call came in for “Joe” my father. The phone call went something like this;

“Hello, Thank You for calling The Pines, may I help you?” (“Yes, is Joe Hall in?”)

“No, sir, Mr. Hall is not here but this is Mike, his son, can I help you?”
(“Well, that’s fine Mike, really you are the one I want to talk to. My name is Bill Summers. I have the spice company over here in Brownstown and I would like to come over and talk to you. Do you have some time to spend with me?”)

Now, I had no idea who was on the other end of the line but he knew Dad, seemed nice, and he wanted to see ME !!!

“Sure,” I said, “I would be glad to talk with you, Mr. Summers!”

Mr. Summers said he would leave right away and would arrive in less than half an hour.

Now, from Brownstown that meant he would have to hang up the phone, jump in his car, and drive straight over here. “What in the world could be so important that he needed to get here so quickly..to see ME?” I asked myself.

Just as he promised the man arrived in half an hour. An average looking medium height man shook my hand and introduced himself as Bill Summers the owner of Marion Kay Spice Company. Mr. Summers asked if we could sit down and talk he had some things he wanted to tell me.

I felt awkward. Here is a man that is older than my father by several years and wanted to see me because he had some important things to tell me. I didn’t know what to do but escort Mr. Summers into my father’s office and let him sit down in one of the brown stuffed leather chairs that faced my father’s large walnut desk. I sat behind the desk, still feeling uncomfortable. It didn’t seem right that a man of his age and stature should be sitting on the “presentation” side of a desk. I felt that it should be the other way around and Mr. Summers should be sitting behind a big desk with me on the “hot seat”.

The Pines and our family have had a long affiliation with Colonel Sanders and Kentucky Fried Chicken. My father bought a franchise on a handshake deal back in 1964 and personally knew the Colonel.

Mr. Summers asked about my father and our KFC restaurant. He then turned his conversation to Colonel Sanders and the friendship Mr. Summers and the Colonel developed.

Colonel Sanders continued mixing seasonings after he had sold Kentucky Fried Chicken. The Colonel was mixing different blends of spices and having some difficulties blending in volume amounts.

A friend told the Colonel to visit this guy that has that Marion Kay Spice Company over in Brownstown Indiana. The Colonel was told that not only did this guy have some of the best spices in the world, he had the equipment to blend in volume. So began the relationship of Marion Kay (Bill) Summers with Colonel Harland Sanders.

The Colonel would make frequent trips to Brownstown to visit Mr. Summers. They blended spices together and developed some blends that Marion Kay still sells today.

One day the Colonel came to visit Mr. Summers and brought some of the Kentucky Fried Chicken seasoning with him. Colonel Sanders was not happy with the way the seasoning was tasting. The Colonel had sold the business a few years back and the Colonel suspected the present owners had changed something about the seasoning mix.

The Colonel left a package of the present day blend of the famous 11 herbs and spices and gave Mr. Summers a challenge; try and figure out what is in the famous blend of herbs and spices.


Mr. Summers told me how he spread the seasoning out on a piece of paper and started taking inventory of the ingredients by eye sight, smell, and taste. Mr. Summers not only figured out the “secret” recipe but figured out what inferior spices had been substituted for spices that were probably of better quality back in the day when the Colonel himself was doing the blending.

Mr. Summers blended an “improved” batch of the secret recipe and waited for the Colonel to return.

Colonel Sanders came back to visit Mr. Summers the next week.

That day the Colonel and Mr. Summers were going to cook and compare chicken. The Colonel brought “Bertha”, his favorite pressure cooker. It was the Colonel’s famous pressure cooker; a big aluminum pressure pot that the Colonel had used in developing Kentucky Fried Chicken years earlier and now sits in the Colonel Sanders Museum in Louisville Ky.

The two men breaded some pieces of chicken. Toothpicks were used to distinguish which chicken was Mr. Summers and which was the Colonels.

The chicken was browned, “capped”, and cooked for the standard 11 minutes the original process called for.

At the end of the cook time the pressure was relieved and the chicken was placed on wire rack to drain and cool. Now it was time to try the pieces of chicken…

For those that knew Colonel Harland Sanders, the Colonel was an outspoken, colorful, emotional man. He spoke his mind and didn’t hold back any details or colorful expletives that he felt needed expressing.

When the Colonel took a bite out of Mr. Summers chicken, the Colonel slammed his fist down on the breading table. Breading flour and utensils went flying as the Colonel let loose with some of his famous expletives. “This is the way it used to taste!!!” said the Colonel.

Mr.Summers had not only “cracked” the secret of the 11 herbs and spices but had improved it back to the original version. Colonel Sanders was so impressed and, therefore, left Mr. Summers with the new formula for use in the Marion Kay Company.

Mr. Summers explained to me when spreading out the spice mixture the Colonel had given him several spices immediately stood out for identification. A few others he had to give some thought and study.

The one ingredient that Mr. Summers felt won the Colonel over was the superior black pepper that was available to Mr. Summers. Mr. Summers called the pepper the “Tellicherry Pepper”. He told me the pepper was probably what the Colonel had used originally.

Mr. Summers said the ingredients had slightly changed probably due to availability. He said there wasn’t enough Tellicherry Pepper in the whole world to supply a major chain like Kentucky Fried Chicken.

Mr. Summers had the Colonels Original Recipe seasoning; or something very close. Actually, Mr. Summers had, what he felt, was a superior version.

Mr. Summers thought that 99% of the recipe was the Colonels and a Mr. Summers secret change was the remaining 1% of the new blend. So he named his new commercial blend of chicken seasoning “99-X”.

In the years to come the Colonel was not happy with the new owners of Kentucky Fried Chicken. It is alleged the Colonel even told some KFC franchisees if they wanted their chicken to taste good again they need to buy 99-X from Marion Kay.

Enough franchisees started buying Mr. Summers version that the present owners of KFC back then, Heublein Inc., filed a lawsuit against Mr. Summers. In retaliation Mr. Summer filed a lawsuit back.

Mr. Summers told me how much contempt he had for these corporate “idiots” and how little character they possessed. Mr. Summers said after several years of the lawsuit KFC Corp made some concessions. Mr. Summers told me they “Threw the dog a bone in hopes it would go away”, “but I didn’t” he said, “I’m still here.”

Mr. Summers asked me all about our business and our family relationships. We talked a bit more and Mr. Summers thanked me for my time and left. He thanked ME for my time!!!

The aging man bid me farewell and politely left our office. I had never seen this man before that day or did I ever meet him again.

Being a naive 23 year old, I did not really understand the real reason Mr. Summers had made the visit that day. A few years later Mr. Summers passed away.

It took me a few years to understand the depth of what had happened that day. Mr. Summers knew our family as independent restaurant operators, our years of affiliation with Kentucky Fried Chicken, and our personal relationship with Colonel Sanders. Mr. Summers had a story to share and he wanted to share his story with someone from the new generation.

In a way, Mr. Summers was “passing the torch’ that day. He knew he was an aging man and wanted to give his story to someone young so the story would live on.

So, every time that special delivery of fragrant spices comes to our office door, I remember the day a special man paid me a visit and gave me a gift I will remember for the rest of my life.

Looking back, I wish I could somehow do him honor and thank him,..

But then again, maybe I just did…

[Deleted]

Tellicherry Peppers are just the larger peppercorns.

[dprovo]

Tellicherry Black Pepper was the first to be discussed by Mike Hall. A few years later when Tod Wilbur tried to re-reate the 11 herbs and spices on CMT, Shelton said the colonel used that variety of Black Pepper.

This is the same Shelton that was given the 11 herbs and spices by Colonel Sanders, were 13g was missing, being Garlic Salt.

Dustin

[Ken_Griffiths]

I can confirm I have also watched the Todd WIlbur TV show and that Winston Shelton did mention Tellicherry Black Pepper on camera. I don't think this is disputed by most researchers that I have encountered in the past few years and I think the pepper works just fine in my own recipes.

[swamprocker]

Here's the old TCK34D Recipe copy from the Colonel's Kitchen I had in documents

Attachments:

[shoishk]

kimberleyallen
Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2008 2:28 pm    Post subject: The ORIGINAL English KFC Coleslaw

The ORIGINAL English KFC Coleslaw

My Father in Law Ray Allen met Colonel Sanders in 1963 and in 1964 opened the very first store in the UK in Preston, Lancashire, England. He went on to open hundreds of stores in England, the Head Office of KFC GB Ltd. being located in Lytham, Lancashire, England. His son Tim Allen is continuing the family tradition running several stores in the north of England "Allen's Fried Chicken".

This is my Father in Law's recipe for coleslaw that used to be made instore and served in all the KFC stores in the UK (unfortunately they now buy it in and it bears no resemblance to the original!). It is very simple and can easily be made in vast quantities, just start with the cabbage and add a sixth of the cabbage weight in carrots and also in onions.

The Colonel was very fussy about standards and taught Ray a lot so this recipe may have even come from him!

6 parts white cabbage
1 part carrot
1 part onion

It is essential that all the vegetables are very very finely chopped...not shredded as is usual with coleslaw. I use a food processor.

To the vegetables add Heinz Salad Cream*, and a little sugar, to taste. The vegetables should be well coated with the Salad Cream.

I never add salt as there is enough in the Salad Cream and I never add pepper as you will find the day after that the coleslaw tastes quite peppery which comes from the cabbage.

*Heinz Salad Cream is what it is called in England. It is NOT mayonnaise but is of similar consistency, pale yellow in colour and more vinegary in taste...I presume that you have the same thing in the US.

I hope you all enjoy!

[ThePieMan]

Hi Ken,

we need a section for The Colonel's Recipes.

Here's the gravy recipe you requested.

.665oz (18.87gm) of Chicken Cracklins (Note: A bit less than 1/8th of a cup!)
.665oz (18.87gm) Breading Flour
2 U.S Cups of Skim Milk (Alternatively, you could use 1 cup of whole milk to 1 cup of water!)
source: web.archive.org/web/20160530094229/http://kfc.forumup.co.uk:80/about405-kfc.html

I thought I had the gravy recipe images, but can't seen to find them.

[ThePieMan]

Next Reference, with instructions.
web.archive.org/web/20080930134353/http://kfc.forumup.co.uk:80/about334-kfc.html

[ThePieMan]

From the apparently, 1960's manual
source: web.archive.org/web/20100831100544/http://kfc.forumup.co.uk:80/about1056-kfc.html

[Ken_Griffiths]

TPM,

What I don't understand is that it was recently mentioned on the forum that nutmeg was added to the Colonels gravy, but I've never seen that... and the links above make no mention of it at all, though I can see that the Colonel used a small pinch of Nutmeg in his 'chicken and dumplin's' recipe. So it looks like there wasn't any in his gravy after all.

[ThePieMan]

Hey Ken, I musta missed that (re: nutmeg) but fwit I haven't seen it either.

I went looking for my analog resources but it appears that in moving S**te "hier und hin" I've lost about 100 self-printed recipes... I am not a happy camper...

I used to have electronic copies of the Colonel's favourite recipes, the gravy trio from TCK, the country cooker manual, the 'sanitised' biography, but now? It seems I just can't find "@€%$&!!!"... stuff. Quite frustrating, really. And all that 'stuff' is becoming progressively lost on the web behind member only access that archive.org cannot crawl.

FWIW the Colonel had different recipes for different purposes, and there is no suggestion that he mixed them up, quite to the counter really, all evidence indicated he was a stickler for detail, there was a recipe for everything and everything had its recipe. So... bmg, no nutmeg in the crackling gravy.

[markmitt]

May 31, 2017 13:20:45 GMT ThePieMan said:

we need a section for The Colonel's Recipes.

Here's the gravy recipe you requested.

.665oz (18.87gm) of Chicken Cracklins (Note: A bit less than 1/8th of a cup!)
.665oz (18.87gm) Breading Flour
2 U.S Cups of Skim Milk (Alternatively, you could use 1 cup of whole milk to 1 cup of water!)
source: web.archive.org/web/20160530094229/http://kfc.forumup.co.uk:80/about405-kfc.html

I thought I had the gravy recipe images, but can't seen to find them.

[jilliegirl]

Oh my goodness......all this is is basic southern gravy!  The easiest thing in the world to make!  I still make it like this in my kitchen for my family.  Someone said a person has to be a Rhode’s scholar to make the Colonel’s gravy?  That’s crazy!  The ingredients are so simple and easy, my youngest child can make it, and can make it taste the same way every time.  Look on You Tube vids for how to make ‘Southern’ or ‘Appalachian’ brown gravy, and you will know the simple ‘secrets’ to making good ‘ole brown (and white) chicken gravy.  I cannot understand why folks make things harder than they have to be.  If we truly are ‘slow’ in the south, it’s just cuz takin’ it slow, easy, and simple is a lot smarter, tastier way to live and eat!  🙂 Hee hee. My family and generations before grew up eating chicken grease, lard, real sweet cream and butter, and the majority have lived to be a ripe old age.  Grandma died at age 93, her twin sister at age 99, and still has one sister who is still living at age 97 and STILL cooks the old fashioned southern way. 🙂. They all eat/ate natural food, grown God’s way, from their own gardens.  None of this gmo, additive, or modified ‘stuff’ people call ‘food’ today. There’s no cancer, heart disease, etc. that cause death in grandma’s family, just old age.  You want good food?  Go back to the basics, folks.  No wonder the Colonel got so dang angry when big corp changed things.  Just my thoughts, nothing special. Blessings.  Jillie 🙂

[ThePieMan]

Dec 17, 2019 11:03:55 GMT jilliegirl said:

... You want good food?  Go back to the basics, folks.  No wonder the Colonel got so dang angry when big corp changed things.  Just my thoughts, nothing special. Blessings.  Jillie 🙂

Welcome Jillie.