The Vials Photograph 1985

[dprovo]

Ken,

I thought I saw that picture before but im not certain. If true that it was in 1976, it supports the idea of Coriander and Sage being displayed as sort of a commemorative idea since again it leaves those two ingredients secret before his death.

Did you see the other members post on his calculation of salt being 2.61g assuming that MSG is 6oz? Close, but I wonder why they chose that wording, not more than 11? It cant be in reference to its level of exceeding black pepper because then that would mean BP would be very low and we all know there is a lot of BP in this mix. What also is interesting, again assuming the date is correct, 25oz.

KFC's letter to Bill Summers in 1977 states that he was supplying at that time over 200 franchises, let alone he was probably fully using 99-X in Florida and Canada. Was it in fact the same as the 26oz spice packet though? Too many questions here.

I always assumed Bill Summers mix had Colonel Sanders Blessing. And again notice, not garlic is noted.

Dustin

[dprovo]

But that is a lot of salt, a lot of salt.

But ya so

1 table spoon of her seasoning
1 cup of flour
1 table soon of fine salt

That is 10-12g of Claudia's Seasoning
160g flour to 16g salt.

50 or so ounces for the total salt, yet MK in the mid 70S WERE using 64oz yikes. A good number I preferer is 40-44oz.

Dustin 

[Ken_Griffiths]

I’m thinking that 99x in the 70’s was used to ‘zing‘ the original recipe ... perhaps the franchisees used 5ozs of 99x per mix (25lbs flour etc). So a container was good for five servings... or if it was 6oz that were used, it just did 4 servings with some left over?

Maybe there was less salt (2.75ozs in total) in the 99x container in the 70’s, because that’s what preserved the herbs and spices, but did not then over-salt the ‘zinged‘ recipe perhaps the missing ounce in the 99x container was just salt too?

There definitely seems to be more that 2.75oz salt in the 99x mix these days .. I would say it’s closer to 3.5oz to 4oz or even higher. I think.🤔

Taking all these things together however, we still seem to be missing 1/4oz of some ingredient(s)? Just wondering if MK did not originally include 1/8oz clove and 1/8oz star-anise in the original 99x mix as it might have overpowered things when using it for ‘zinging‘ purposes?

Like I said it’s all quite intriguing and still difficult to make any sense of what was in the mix originally and what changed after the court case in the 1980’s.

[Ken_Griffiths]

dProvo,

Whilst I obviously cannot confirm the date of the Marion Kay 99x label a few posts back (allegedly 1976), it’s interesting to note that the salt level back then is shown as being no more than 11%, which is no more than 2.75oz of Salt. I think that level of Salt changed after the out of Court settlement with KFC in the 1980’s and the mention of 11% was removed from the container. The 11% is definitely not mentioned on the modern 99x container.

I thought, with that salt level in mind, I would take my current CV/3 recipe ingredients and see how that pans out if there was such a Salt level in the Colonels 26oz seasoning bag. For this purpose I have to assume the Salt was held in the Colonels 100lb Barrel and that he added the MSG only to the bag separately as mentioned on the Corbin Museum sign. This is how it might change the recipe, given this information and choosing to use the same salt level...2.75 ounces.

CV Lock-in Recipe 4/2020 (MK Salt Level)
6oz MSG (Not held in Barrel) 6g
6oz White Pepper (30lbs) 6g
5oz Black Pepper (25lbs) 5g
2.75oz Fine Flake Salt (13.75lbs) 2.75g
1.25oz Sage (6.25lbs) 1.25g
1.25oz Coriander (6.25lbs) 1.25g
1.25oz Ginger (6.25lbs) 1.25g
1.25oz Cayenne (6.25lbs) 1.25g
0.25oz Clove (1.25lbs) 0.25g
0.25oz Star Anise (1.25lbs) 0.25g
0.25oz Marjoram (1.25lbs) 0.25g
0.25oz Rosemary (1.25lbs) 0.25g
0.25oz Savory (1.25lbs) 0.25g
Total 26 ounces/(100lbs)/(26g Home-Use Recipe)

Note:
(** excluding the MSG, simply multiply the ingredient ounce weight by 80 to get its weight in the 100lb Barrel)

...interesting to see that the recipe fits well and is still simple, but suggests the Barrel was based on a 1-1/4lb (20oz) recipe and would therefore produce 80 seasoning bags in total.

The 26g recipe is for use with 400g Flour and 48g Salt, but I tend to half those levels for family use. 

[Ken_Griffiths]

I will just mention that I have not made or taste-tested the above recipe.🍗 🍗

The recipe Salt level is also notably quite close to the 13g "missing ingredient" mentioned by Winston Shelton... here it would be 13.75g in his 100g recipe, but I guess we perhaps cannot rule out that Shelton was ‘rounding‘ his numbers, as he does mention other ingredient values using whole integers.

See this link: www.louisville.com/content/winston-shelton-colonels-corporal-food-dining

[dprovo]

Ken,

By looking at the above recipe, its also easy to shave off 1g to make it 25oz. I like clove at that level.

From what I read from Mike, I never understood 99-X to be anything other than the O.R, nothing taken away or added. My take on Shelton, was he had the 11, and when the 11 didn't add up to 100g like the Colonel had said he was puzzled. Because 13g of Salt was never part of the 11 herbs and spices, just a part of the seasoning. He also never mentioned MSG, or the additional salt to add either.

Dustin

[dprovo]

Forgot to add, if I had a list of 10 and it totaled 87g, I wouldn't be puzzled. I would just know I didn't have the complete recipe, that im missing an item. We were already at a time where most people knew the phrase, "11 HERBS AND SPICES."

Dustin

[willy]

CHS, IMHO, was not giving Shelton "his" recipe, but the corporate recipe, for spite.

[Ken_Griffiths]

May 11, 2020 18:33:24 GMT dprovo said:

Ken,

By looking at the above recipe, its also easy to shave off 1g to make it 25oz. I like clove at that level.

From what I read from Mike, I never understood 99-X to be anything other than the O.R, nothing taken away or added. My take on Shelton, was he had the 11, and when the 11 didn't add up to 100g like the Colonel had said he was puzzled. Because 13g of Salt was never part of the 11 herbs and spices, just a part of the seasoning. He also never mentioned MSG, or the additional salt to add either.

Dustin

I certainly prefer the Clove and Star Anise at this level too.. 1/4oz each in the 26oz bag ... which is what I have set them to in the CV/5 recipe. In the CV/4 recipe (which I haven’t taste-tested) I am concerned that the three lower herbs marjoram, savory and rosemary might be high... they seemed high at 1/4oz in recipe CV/3 .. hence I have lowered those to 1/8 ounce in CV/5 ... but it’s very interesting how everything fits together well in CV/4 with a salt level similar to what I think was in 99x in the 1970’s, but this would mean that the CV/4 recipe weighed 20 ounces in the Barrel (per portion) and that the Barrel would have held 13.75lbs of Salt alongside the herbs, spices and garlic powder. The garlic powder might have been a part of the Salt (Garlic Salt, perhaps?).

From my own taste-perspective It’s whether or not the herbs mentioned work at the 1/4 oz level in CV/4 .. something I may need to try in a side by side test with CV/5 (my favourite so far) at some point.

By the way I disagree with Willy on the matter of the Colonel handing Winston Shelton a corporate version of the recipe, as the 100g portion size is an "easy-to-scale-down" recipe from the 100lb Barrel, where 1g is equal to one pound, plus the Colonel and Claudia were very good friends with Winston... I just don’t see a reason to bring spite into their relationship. Sheltons cVAP machines became an important part of the finished texture of the breaded/cooked chicken. I still personally try to replicate the process at home today with a steam filled oven, or a lidded container to help soften the otherwise crispy breading.

[willy]

The spite was against the Corporation, which had greatly angered CHS. Your theory has no more support in fact than mine does. What is missed, is that if CHS gave his recipe to another, then where was the all important "process" needed to cook the product? All Shelton knew at that time was THE CORPORATE PROCESS. This recipe just finished the Corporate procedure. Where is your logic about the 100 lb barrel? How could Shelton have cooked the OR, if he didn't know how CHS "used to do it"?

[kgp]

Where does Glen's final recipe put the vials? I clearly see only 3 green herbs. Can anyone match them now?

[questfor11]

Jan 27, 2021 0:05:06 GMT kgp said:

Where does Glen's final recipe put the vials? I clearly see only 3 green herbs. Can anyone match them now?

I'm working on a new graphic for it.

[kgp]

At TCK's site we concluded that vials B, D and I were herbs. Since they are green in color. I only count three herbs. Not four like Glen has been saying.

[questfor11]

Jan 27, 2021 14:03:48 GMT kgp said:

At TCK's site we concluded that vials B, D and I were herbs. Since they are green in color. I only count three herbs. Not four like Glen has been saying.

Well, vial H to me looks like an herb. A browner version of an herb anyways. Not all herbs that are initially green dry the same color. Marjoram and oregano for instance  can dry to a brownish color. That's if it's not a commercial product treated with conditioners for extended shelf life.

[kgp]

Jan 27, 2021 15:25:42 GMT questfor11 said:

Jan 27, 2021 14:03:48 GMT kgp said:

At TCK's site we concluded that vials B, D and I were herbs. Since they are green in color. I only count three herbs. Not four like Glen has been saying.

Well, vial H to me looks like an herb. A browner version of an herb anyways. Not all herbs that are initially green dry the same color. Marjoram and oregano for instance  can dry to a brownish color. That's if it's not a commercial product treated with conditioners for extended shelf life.

Consider the other 3 stayed green. Marjoram and thyme are very close. In fact many can't tell the difference visually. Look at Glen's video where he has both of them on the table.