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Post by Ken_Griffiths on Dec 19, 2019 15:50:15 GMT
Isn't ground, dried, sweet red peppers=paprika? Yes Mike, but there is hot red pepper too, as you can perhaps see from the link earlier that the McCormick one is cayenne and then we also have this from Wikipedia... en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crushed_red_pepper... which isn’t Paprika. So there is some confusion by the term 'Red Pepper’. In the 99x recipe, I would say the mix is fairly hot to the taste.. in my view hotter than just the black and white pepper and I think from the images it’s some kind of hot red pepper, possibly cayenne. If I used Paprika or the sweet (non-hot) capsicum dried red pepper I could not seem to get the raw heat taste in my own recipes, so it’s some kind of hot red pepper or chilli as we now often call it, that’s in 99x. I personally think the Colonel used all three, White, Black and (Hot) Red Pepper (or Chilli/Cayenne Pepper if you prefer to call it that) and I base that on both what is on the label in 99x and what I photographed under the microscope... there are a few different photos here on the forum showing the red flakes in the mix. So those things, together with Sage and Coriander gives us 5 spices (perhaps ?). I have detected Marjoram and Thyme in my own research with the mix,but never found any ... Clove, Allspice, Garlic or Savory ...and personally speaking I have never found/confirmed Jamaican Ginger either, but Ginger 'could' possibly be in the mix and if it is, it’s not set at a particularly high level. If I was asked to place a bet on it, I would opt for saying Jamaican Ginger is not in 99x and so my thoughts are the spices/herbs possibly removed during the out of four settlement were ... Ginger Savoury Allspice Clove I can’t rule out the other idea mentioned by other members here though, that 'some' ingredients were possibly swapped for others as part of the Court settlement. It’s quite possible that the Thyme was used to replace Savory, just as an example and that Marjoram was the replacement for Oregano. And let me just say these have been mostly my own lines of research which I have based entirely around 99x, in conjunction with the glass vials appearance and I appreciate that this chosen course of research is not for everyone here and I do appreciate that folk have other valid (legitimate) lines of research into the OR that they are pursuing. One other ‘very slight' belief I still have and have posted about here previously, is that I think the first 4 vials (at least) were dedicated to the initials of both The Colonel and his wife Claudia for his 85th Birthday celebration...and that they are... Coriander Sage Clove Savory I also think the research around some of these herbs and spices is close in terms of taste and aroma, as I remember it from my younger days, but I also equally think that there are still a few more things to discover.
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Fritzer
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Post by Fritzer on Apr 24, 2020 16:48:42 GMT
Sexton Poultry Seasoning Anyone who wants to cook my best ever O.R. recipe which I will post here soon needs to prepare a batch of this poultry seasoning in advance. It's a documented fact that Colonel Sanders used Sexton Poultry Seasoning when he first started tinkering with his now-famous fried chicken recipe. If he considered it to be one ingredient, it proves once again what a smart fellow he was. Sexton Poultry Seasoning 2 tsp Sage 3/4 tsp Coriander 1/2 tsp Allspice 1/2 tsp Ginger 1/2 tsp Thyme 1/2 tsp Marjoram 1/8 tsp Black Pepper 1/8 tsp Savory As you can see, the yield is 5 tsp so it'll be good for more than one use. I'll post my O.R. recipe soon. L
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Post by Fritzer on Apr 24, 2020 16:51:21 GMT
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Post by Ken_Griffiths on Apr 25, 2020 1:32:45 GMT
Sexton Poultry Seasoning Anyone who wants to cook my best ever O.R. recipe which I will post here soon needs to prepare a batch of this poultry seasoning in advance. It's a documented fact that Colonel Sanders used Sexton Poultry Seasoning when he first started tinkering with his now-famous fried chicken recipe. If he considered it to be one ingredient, it proves once again what a smart fellow he was. Sexton Poultry Seasoning 2 tsp Sage 3/4 tsp Coriander 1/2 tsp Allspice 1/2 tsp Ginger 1/2 tsp Thyme 1/2 tsp Marjoram 1/8 tsp Black Pepper 1/8 tsp Savory As you can see, the yield is 5 tsp so it'll be good for more than one use. I'll post my O.R. recipe soon. L Welcome to the kfc11 forum Fritzer and thanks for sharing your research and recipes here with the community members. I’m sure I’ve seen that recipe before for Sexton’s poultry seasoning. Anyhow I just have one question about your comment, which says... "It's a documented fact that Colonel Sanders used Sexton Poultry Seasoning..." I’ve not seen that documented anywhere and just wondering if you can also kindly post that evidence, as I think that might prove useful to others here. The only evidence I have seen is that when the Colonel was trying to perfect his cooking technique with the pressure fryer, in the very early days, he did use Eula Gordon’s recipe that relied on a commercial seasoned salt, which is mentioned in the John Ed Pearce biography, but not seen anything that supports the Colonel used Sextons Poultry seasoning. Anyhow look forward to seeing your recipe in due course. I hope you find this forum useful to your own research too.
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Post by Fritzer on Apr 28, 2020 20:14:12 GMT
Hi Ken, Thanks for your kind welcome. I included a post from kgp who stated "It's a documented fact that Colonel Sanders used Sexton Poultry Seasoning..."in my response to his thread. I would definitely be interested in that documentary evidence as well. I am doing some research on Stange Co. (the other spice provider listed in the Marion Kay lawsuit)and will post what I find when I'm done with that. Thanks again!
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Post by kgp on Apr 29, 2020 8:15:12 GMT
Guys that is an old post from member Lumpy who posted on many of the old chicken forums like TCK and KFCThe11Cracked. He passed away. We will never know his source of saying "It's a documented fact that Colonel Sanders used Sexton Poultry Seasoning when he first started tinkering with his now-famous fried chicken recipe."
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Post by ThePieMan on Aug 24, 2020 20:23:19 GMT
In another more current thread, kfc11.proboards.com/post/6424 Ken posted a biographical reference I must have missed at earlier times, which claims that Durkee was once a primary supplier of 11S&H mix to the fledgling KFC franchise system. It would seem then, the Spice supplier chain was: 1) off the shelf, Durkee and Sexton spices; 2) Durkee as principle mixer of 11S&H; 3) Stange as principle mixer and shipper of 11S&H; 4) Sexton & Stange as co-suppliers of KFC Corp Seasoning mix; 5)Marion Kay as a competitive (alternative) supplier to KFC Corps chosen supplier. In light of previous discussions in this sub-forum, we cannot rule out that CHS used Durkee poultry seasoning as a base starting point for his recipe. We have seen Sexton spices tins in the museum, and we have also seen Durkee spice tins on the same shelves. By the same reasoning, we cannot claim as fact Sexton over Durkee as the goto poultry spice mix in CHS's initial development days. However, we can reasonably extrapolate that he wasn't necessarily happy with the flavour provided by either brand so he developed his own custom mix. The question then, is why did he go to Durkee to be his initial commercial spice supplier? Clearly he knew the Durkee brand and their spices and was happy enough to start his franchising out with them... Now, if Durkee was the original spice supplier for the franchisees, then it follows that the O.R. was made with Durkee sourced herbs and spices, and not Sexton, or Marion Kay. Where does that leave us today? Who bought out Durkee? Was it McCormick? Is any of this musing meaningful to present O.R. research? jm2cw TPM
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Post by Ken_Griffiths on Aug 24, 2020 20:43:00 GMT
Durkee’s were apparently a smaller ‘family run’ business at the time and I ‘think’ the sales/demand for the Colonels seasoning out-grew their supply chain, so the Colonel switched to the larger Stange (Chicago) company in 1964. I think McCormicks later acquired Stange in a takeover in 1981, and as far as I’m aware Durkee’s are still around today, at least there is this website: www.durkeefoodservice.com
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Post by ThePieMan on Aug 24, 2020 22:32:21 GMT
Owned by B&G Foods, according to the site. Wikiedia reports that they got rolled in with Spice Islands and Tone, prior to the B&G acquisition, but they have always maintained a flagship Brand position. Interesting.
Addendum: Given recent discussions about red pepper, orange peel, lemon pepper, etc., Durkee DOES have a product called Ancho Citrus Seasoning... fascinating...
btw: upthread was a discussion on "Pepper." It is clear from historical references that "Pepper" = "black pepper and the two terms were interchangeable prior to the 50's as, has been mentioned in the 1945 NBC Spice Report transcript, "...white pepper was not very popular..." What we can take from this is the following: a) pepper where used as a term on its own means, "black pepper"; b) other peppers carried an adjective in order to clarify and distinguish them from "black pepper" such as, white pepper, red pepper, cayenne pepper, long pepper, etc. c) where pepper is listed on a label and is a blend, then the ingredients in the blend needed to be listed hence, "pepper(white, black)"
I hope that clarifies the "Pepper" issue?
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Post by hanysakr2020 on Sept 12, 2020 20:21:35 GMT
hanysakr2020, Lumpy never used weights. batelmagdie, I would probably have savory equal to thyme and marjoram which is half tsp. ok sir thanks but the ingredients ground ?
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Post by kgp on Sept 13, 2020 10:52:47 GMT
hanysakr2020, Lumpy never used weights. batelmagdie, I would probably have savory equal to thyme and marjoram which is half tsp. ok sir thanks but the ingredients ground ? Yes, if you buy poultry seasoning today at your local store you can see the fine grind.
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Post by kgp on Jan 21, 2022 15:45:55 GMT
Sexton keeps coming up as a KFC starting point. Anyone first starting out in making a fried chicken recipe should use it.
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Post by kgp on Jan 24, 2022 8:28:03 GMT
I should add that none of us had real Sexton Poultry Seasoning. It no longer existed. Lumpy came up with the recipe only from the tin. We did know that Sexton and Stange had a connection with the KFC recipe in the past.
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Post by willy on Jan 24, 2022 18:39:52 GMT
I have a plethora of rare, old and new cookbooks. In all, that involve poultry, sage and poultry seasoning are interchangeable. That means that traditionally, and presently, poultry seasoning is sage dominant. Taking this into consideration it appears to me that a calculated misinformation campaign would de-emphasize sage, if it was truly an OR requisite. Can anyone say "Glen"?
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Post by kgp on Jan 25, 2022 18:53:47 GMT
Indeed poultry seasoning does contain a greater amount of sage. However, it doesn't mean that CHS use it that way in his original recipe. It would've been very easy for him to see the ingredients on the old tin and make something of his own. One that did not contain so much sage. I find too much sage or any combo of herbs makes the fried chicken taste too herby. KFC was never herby tasting and is not today.
I have yet to hear a single lie that Glen told about his KFC adventures. He is as honest person. Perhaps someone lied to him and he gave it as fact unknowing?
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